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Old 08-15-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,112 posts, read 4,466,061 times
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I hate to break it to you but the "common culture" some of you are trying to pry out of this discussion has always been fractured since the inception of this country. The only thing truly common if you cut away everything is the belief of freedom and the power to overcome injustice. Everything else is just gravy on top.

Oh and except for WesternPilgrim, who else calls multiculturalism anti-culture?
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:34 PM
 
62,721 posts, read 28,927,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
From its very beginning, America has been an immigrant nation, so if by common culture, you mean being homogenous, then no we do not nor ever really had a common culture.

I do feel that if there is one common thread throughout the diverse populations is the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

That's what motivated most of the immigration to this country, what's responsible for the movements for those already here that were denied those rights.

If Americans can come to realize we can journey on the pursuits together rather than against each other, then yes that will help hold the nation together.
The U.S. is no longer an immigrant nation even though immigrants still come here. We are a nation of Americans today and have been for some time now.

The early immigrants even though from different nations blended together to form one U.S. culture (out of many, one) and made English our national language. Unfortunately today, immigrants aren't blending in like they used to. Instead they are bringing their cultures with them not blend them with ours but to put them in competition with ours and to change ours. This is happening because we aren't diversifying our immigration numbers anymore and far too many come from one nation/ethic group both legally and illegally. They key to successful immigration is assimilation, not colonization. You tell one one country in the world that wants its mainstream culture to change. Not a single one but we are demonized for desiring to retain ours?

Last edited by Oldglory; 08-15-2012 at 02:48 PM..
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:36 PM
 
5,654 posts, read 5,143,394 times
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Default A common culture?

Would that be as in culturally common?
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:38 PM
 
6,082 posts, read 6,023,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
The Anglicans in Virginia, the Congregationalists in Massachusetts, the Catholics in Maryland, etc. wanted their own public life without uniformity being centrally imposed. Even the established state churches were left untouched by the Constitution. That was really the experiment: was there enough cultural unity for a strong national government, while allowing sufficient liberty for the states to preserve their own values?

In my opinion, preventing the collapse of America will require a much higher cultural consensus than we have today. Perhaps not as high as it once was, but sufficient to facilitate agreement on the most important and divisive issues facing the nation. Would it mean giving up one's heritage? In some things, undoubtedly, but not most. If Americans simply returned to their religious heritage that would move us closer to the goal.
Why do I have the feeling this return to "our one true religious heritage" inevitably entails central imposing and enforcing a consensus which does not allow for much, if any liberty?
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,314,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The U.S. is no longer an immigrant nation even though immigrants still come here. We are a nation of Americans today and have been for some time now.

The early immigrants even though from different nations blended together to form one U.S. culture (out of many, one) and made English our national language. Unfortunately today, immigrants aren't blending in like they used to. Instead they are bringing their cultures with them not blend them with ours but to put them in competition with ours and to change ours. This is happening because we aren't diversifying our immigration numbers anymore and far too many come from one nation/ethic group both legally and illegally. They key to successful immigration is assimilation, not colonization.
Plus 70% of immigrants today settle in only 7 states. They segregate themselves. There is no disbursement thoughout the US.

I'm in one of those 7 states and see the segregation. They have the numbers to do that and survive and make a living.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: California
37,097 posts, read 42,093,887 times
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I really like what DC had to say about it. At the heart that is the truth.

Practically speaking though I can't leave CA or the west coast without experiencing culture shock.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:44 PM
 
62,721 posts, read 28,927,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I think such alarmist rhetoric is mainly about the changing racial demographics of this nation. The basic premise is that those people aren't like the "real" Americans and those people with their third world backwards culture are ruining America.

It is classic conservative political ideology.

Almost every poster who writes this apocalyptic vision of American culture identify themselves as a conservative.
There is no changing racial demographics in this country. Every race defined by the census has already lived here since its founding. You are confusing race with culture. They aren't the same thing.

It is our culture that is changing and not in a natural way. Much of it is changing via illegal immigration. Immigration needs to be diversified to work. Today, it is mosly one nation/ethnic group that is coming here by far in the largest numbers both legally and illegally. That encourages colonization rather than assimilation to the mainstream culture.

This has nothing to do with party lines. I swear some people will say anything to make negative comments about the right. I don't care if you are left or right what I said above is the truth and it isn't only the views of the right. What nation is the world wants its mainstream culture to change? Not one, but some reason we get demonized for wanting to retain ours.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,593,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
They aren't process words. They are the heart and soul of American culture. They are what gave us "common culture".
You're definitely putting the cart before the horse, my friend. That is not how it happened historically. These ideas all developed within a specific social, religious, and cultural milieu. Again, see Kirk's "Roots of American Order" or Tocqueville's "Democracy in America" for details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
What bound those thirteen colonies together, what they had in common, were the ideas of equality and law, freedom, opportunity regardless of your class, your parentage, your ethnicity.
That is to overstate the case profoundly. You would have found colonial life to be shockingly class-conscious and aristocratic. Read, for example, George Washington's Rules of Civility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
We don't have museums that are just for the upper classes ... We don't have professions that are reserved for people with the right backgrounds. We don't have colleges and universities that only the elite can attend.
On the contrary, we have all of these and more. The myth is not the reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Because law, freedom, opportunity aren't "process" words, they are words that describe who Americans are, regardless of color or religion or social or economic status.
I'll grant you that these words describe what has become, for many, the American Creed - a national religion of sorts - and that is indeed culture. But they are still process words. Freedom is a means to an end, not the end itself. I want freedom so that I can worship God, raise a family, work at something good, etc. If we lose sight of what freedom is for, it becomes rather pointless.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,996 posts, read 10,438,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Why do I have the feeling this return to "our one true religious heritage" inevitably entails central imposing and enforcing a consensus which does not allow for much, if any liberty?
Indeed. I fail to see how "freedom" entails, for example, throwing unrepentant gays and lesbians in jail.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:53 PM
 
62,721 posts, read 28,927,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
Your interpretation exemplifies what he stated.

[i don't think this country has ever had a common culture]
Wrong! Yes, we always have and still do have a common culture though some don't like what it is so they either remain in denial or seek to change it.
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