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Old 08-21-2012, 08:48 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't. Having said that, our current growth-based economic system is doomed to collapse because on a global scale things are indeed zero sum.
Wow. No. Global wealth is not zero sum. Why do you believe it is?
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Wow. No. Global wealth is not zero sum. Why do you believe it is?
Because most of the values we create are illusions. At the end of the day the only thing that will always matter to humans is food and water. All the rest is just comfort and luxury, bubbles of excess. For that we keep converting raw materials into all kinds of stuff, but it is all limited and will run out sooner or later, a closed system, especially given the speed at which we convert. Once the converting stops, the perceived growth of wealth stops. It is just a matter of time.
It is the same with national economies. I can or have to say the same thing even about myself. What I do for a living has no meaning really. I am just another parasite living off this crazy system of waste. And sometimes I wonder why on earth anyone pays me for my work. Glad they don't know what I think of them and my work

I guess we are pretty off-topic
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:09 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Because most of the values we create are illusions. At the end of the day the only thing that will always matter to humans is food and water. All the rest is just comfort and luxury, bubbles of excess. For that we keep converting raw materials into all kinds of stuff, but it is all limited and will run out sooner or later, a closed system, especially given the speed at which we convert.
It's a closed system in regards to non-renewable natural resources. It's NOT zero sum in regards to wealth creation. One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It's a closed system in regards to non-renewable natural resources. It's NOT zero sum in regards to wealth creation. One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.
I disagree, they are tied like ying and yang
Wealth as such does not even exist, it is just an abstract invention. Gold or money for instance is worthless as soon as people stop considering it valuable.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:24 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,813,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I disagree, they are tied like ying and yang
Only to the uncreative and unimaginative.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado
1,976 posts, read 2,352,918 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Do you really believe that the Obamacare law is something that will bring on income equality? Really, really believe that?

I think it is time for me to tell you people on this thread that there are two kinds of equality, and people of the left seem to want only one of them. There is equality of condition and equality of opportunity. The second one is the kind that the US has had all those years while building the great society that Mr. Obama was talking about when he said that small businesses didn't build their businesses. The other kind of equality, that of condition, is what so many here seem to want. In others words they want everybody to have the same amount of money.

How in the world do we build something like Obama is destroying again if nobody has enough money to build since according to him that money is the government's money not that of the individual? I can't understand how pure socialism will ever rebuild us.
The GOP health care plan Obama adopted is a small step in the right direction towards providing health care for all your fellow citizens. I personally have incurred large bills (all paid at great cost to me) due to the fact that the health care system in this country has always been geared towards wealthy citizens. That is now changing and at some point we will have single-payer. Whether you like it or not, we are all in this together and need to work as a team with shared costs.

Obama as a pro-capitalist conservative has taken measures that I don't agree with. The insurance companies still have too much power. Don't bring up that 'socialism' BS cause that's a crock. I'm a socialist and Obama is CLEARLY a capitalist/conservative/Christian. Jill Stein kicks his butt on all issues but as team coach he's worked hard to pull the country out of the cesspool it was in under the Republicons. He's the clear choice for re-election in November and has my vote.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:46 AM
 
4,255 posts, read 3,479,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
This is probably not true. People who have children and who become impoverished are already poor or very near poverty level to start. So the problem isn't having a children causes poverty. The reality is that so many working adults are already near poverty or in poverty even without children, and the reality is that most low wage workers stay low wage workers. The reality is they'd never have children.

Also, I want to point out if staying out of poverty was the main way that humanity decided to have children then the vast majority of human beings would have never been born.

Poverty is the normal state of the vast majority of people throughout history. So poverty has never been even that important for human beings when considering having children. Think about that.

It should be. When one is too poor to feed themselves they should be thinking if bringing another child to the table is a good, reasonable responsable thing to do.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:50 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Only to the uncreative and unimaginative.
To the realistic...
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,483 posts, read 11,280,665 times
Reputation: 9002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Jealousy, yet another myth debunked in that link above
You make the mistake to believe everyone wants to be rich. Most people don't, they just want to lead decent lives without worrying about getting ill etc.
How do I post the little rolling on the floor laughing my arse off emoticon, because this is one of the funniest things ever said on CD.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
To the realistic...
You're just full of never-ending excuses for those who make unwise life and financial choices and therefore suffer the undesirable consequences of such, huh?
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