Remembering Ruby Ridge, 20 yrs Aug 21 (lawyers, controversial, Brown, cost)

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by freightshaker

It wasn't law enforcement, it was an execution.. Plain and simple. Waco could have been avoided as well... All they had to do was wait till the leaders came to town, which they did routinely and arrest them there. Instead it was turned into a circus event, and people were killed needlessly. It was all done for the benefit of the cameras...

A government sniper shooting a young mother through the body of her craddled infant baby is quite a photo op.

[freightshaker]

How can any reasonable person actually trust their government anymore? It doesn't even matter who is in office at the time. Government is out of control. It has become a monster that we are no longer in charge of. There is no longer accountability.

[Ghostrider275452]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Reno may have ordered the final attack that resulted in the Davidians being killed, but she did not order the initial assault on the compound. She was not Attorney General at the time of the initial raid.

You're right, she started serving in march and Waco started in feb of the same year.

From Wiki....

Newly appointed U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno approved recommendations by the FBI to mount an assault after being told that conditions were deteriorating and that children were being abused inside the compound.[49] (Over the next several months, Janet Reno's reason for approving the final tank-and-gas attack varied from her initial claim that the FBI had told her that Koresh was sexually abusing children and beating babies [the FBI later denied evidence of child abuse during the standoff] to her claim that Linda Thompson and her one-woman "Unorganized Militia of the United States" was on their [her] way to Waco to aid or attack Koresh.[57])

[Ghostrider275452]

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

I remember watching a movie about Ruby Ridge and have watched the documentary and I will say that I feel Weaver was more responsible for his wife and son's death than anyone. He should have given himself up.

I feel for his surviving children in that they have had to live motherless since these tragic events.

I also see Randy Weaver more in the lines of a criminal holding out, trying to resist arrest and I don't understand the fascination some have with him and how this whole incident was blown up to instigate so much controversey. I don't believe for a second that the FBI didn't yell that they were federal agents, especially after the shots were fired after the dog was killed. The whole situation could have been and should have been over at that point IMO and Weaver should have had more control over his son, especially since his son had such a high caliber, dangerous weapon. If Weaver had done the right thing and put his hands up right then and walked out, even if he had been shot down, it would have been better than his son and wife being killed.

I see him more as a coward than anything.

Do you see any criminal history here?Randy Weaver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You know nothing of Randy Weaver. I think you have been led around by the nose your whole life by the government to believe the gov can and will provide everything you need, you no nothing about liberty and providing for your self. This is exactly the things our founding fathers fought against.

[Ghostrider275452]

Originally Posted by Mac_Muz

You confused me..... Weaver was bribed into cutting off 2 shotgun barrels 1/4 inch shorter then the law allows. This was his only crimes....

He didn't shoot anyone ever which is a part of the problem. Someone kills my dog, my son, and my wife and they will have to kill me too. During the time they try i will be trying back and for all I am worth.

The law states 18 inch barrels on shot guns, but only a fool would cut one off less than 18 and 1/4inches long. There are plenty of bad cops that would grind a exact 18 inches on pavement and get it to be 17 and 15/16ths.

Actually, Weaver said he didn't cut the guns, he said the scumbag informant he sold them to cut them. A 1/4 inch ain't much.

[Ghostrider275452]

Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds

Did they knock on his door before shooting the dog and kid? Did they call to let him know they were coming? He had been arrested they let him go.......that wasn't enough they wanted him because he refused to "snitch" about people he didn't know. You just comment and haven't read anything. What part do you not understand?

This is from the artical of the link I posted earlier. He was sent a letter with the wrong trial date, maybe a setup for the eventual raid..............

On January 22, 1991 Randy received a letter stating that his court date was scheduled for March 20, 1991, however the letter contained one crucial error - the actual date was February 20, 1991. It is unknown why Randy was provided with the wrong date and it has since been declared a typographical error. When Randy failed to show up at his February hearing, US Attorney Ron Howen asked Judge Harold Ryan to declare Randy Weaver a federal fugitive. Even though both men had just been informed of the date mix-up, Ryan agreed with Howen and issued an arrest warrant for Randy. The warrant was then turned over to the US Marshals, whose job is to seek federal fugitives and process federal prisoners while they are in transit or at trial.

All about Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge, by David Lohr — Government Gone Wrong — Crime Library on truTV.com

[Maabus1999]

I grew up a few hours from where this took place. Remember the local news discussing it. Anyways, there were no innoccents in this incident outside of maybe Weaver's children being pushed by their parents. The first time they came to server the warrant and he told them he wouldn't come, and had his children take up defensive positions around the cabin, was the first sign this would end badly. Who in their right mind would put their children in harm's way when the issue revolves around you. Personally, I think Weaver was either crazy or a coward that led to a bunch of gun-ho special marshalls to screw up their rules of engagement and shoot some of the family members. The USM should be held accountable for their obvious screw ups too.

But anyone idolizing this situation is honestly looking at it through rose tinted glasses. The whole situation on both sides was a horrible story of stupidity and cowardism.

[no1brownsfan]

From what I see, and what I've read about this incident. The government screwed up BIG TIME! If they didn't, then why was Weaver and his daughter given a settlement?

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by claudhopper

F ing right. This gov't is supposed to represent us, protect us, serve us - not engage us as the enemy.

He holed up and threatened to resist by force, instead of answering for a crime he was accused of. That is not how society works.

If your local crack dealer decided that instead of appearing in court to address charges of selling he barricaded himself in the crack house with guns and threatened anyone who tried to bring him in would you be okay with that? Whether said crack dealer was later found not guilty it still isn't acceptable to refuse to appear and make threats, and same applies to Weaver.

Originally Posted by claudhopper

asking the gov't to take care of you instead of taking care of yourself.

I've seen articles where the ones screaming about people expecting the government to care for them are often the ones receiving the most checks in the mail every month.

Originally Posted by claudhopper

Liberals are idiots

Anyone who as a functioning adult didn't know the moon had gravity until others in this forum explained it to them should be barred from making any insults related to intelligence.

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by Mac_Muz

But you said how I feel.. between now and early January should prove to be very interesting times.

This is standard anti-gov nutter talk, always something big around the corner, something brewing.

Then nothing happens, and they make new threads.