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Old 08-20-2012, 05:27 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,219,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
What different reaction?
Why do people feel sympathetic toward the Weavers even after 20 years, but that same level of sympathy is not displayed when a drug dealer's family is gunned down by police. People aren't even as sympathetic when it is not the drug dealer's family, but a family that just happened to be in the home when cops serve the warrant on the wrong house.

Randy Weaver broke the law, refused to surrender to authorities with a proper arrest warrant, a family friend and his son shot and killed a LEO. I fail to see why he is a cause celebre for some right wingers. Is it because it involved gun laws?
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:29 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,219,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
No - Mr. Weaver wanted to be left alone in peace with his family - the government brought a war to them - just read the terminology they used: rules of engagement, defensive position, recon patrol, ect... Do you really want the federal government to engage in warfare against American citizens?
So, if someone decides the laws don't apply to them, LEO should just back down and let them do whatever they want?
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,287 posts, read 7,499,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
So, if someone decides the laws don't apply to them, LEO should just back down and let them do whatever they want?
That's exactly what some of the loons think. Frightening isn't it.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:32 PM
 
17,027 posts, read 9,496,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
The dog was shot without provacation.


I see Agent 415 ignored this.

If you come shooting just what do you think you're going to get in return anyway?
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:34 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,590,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
If they're a bunch of neo-nazis who are stockpiling and selling weapons... you make it sound like this was just a little farm with ole ma & pa and the big, bad feds rolled in on account of the old Winchester in their closet.
There was no proof of this it all speculation......just cause a person is from Idaho and has guns doesn't make us nazi's or white supremacist. They could have waited this out they knew women and children were there. Plus they were sneaking in this is the real story..........

On August 21, 1992 a paramilitary unit of the U.S. Marshals Service ventured onto the 20-acre property known as Ruby Ridge. A man named Randy Weaver owned the land and he lived there with his wife, children, and a family friend, Kevin Harris. There was an outstanding warrant for Weaver’s arrest for a firearms offense and the marshals were surveilling the premises. When the family dog noticed the marshals sneaking around in the woods, it began to bark wildly. Weaver’s 14-year-old boy, Sammy, and Kevin Harris proceeded to grab their rifles because they thought the dog had come upon a wild animal.
A firefight erupted when a marshal shot and killed the dog. Enraged that the family pet had been cut down for no good reason, Sammy shot into the woods at the unidentified trespasser. Within a few minutes, two human beings were shot dead: Sammy Weaver and a marshal. Harris and the Weaver family retreated to their cabin and the marshals retreated from the mountain and called the FBI for assistance.

If you live in rural Idaho wild animals can be on your property and you can be in danger........the boy had every right to think something was after his dog or him. If the LEO had announced their selves things may have turned out different.


More at EndtheLie.com - End the Lie – Independent News | Ruby Ridge (Film + Official FBI Report)
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,125 posts, read 21,913,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
Why do people feel sympathetic toward the Weavers even after 20 years, but that same level of sympathy is not displayed when a drug dealer's family is gunned down by police. People aren't even as sympathetic when it is not the drug dealer's family, but a family that just happened to be in the home when cops serve the warrant on the wrong house.
The problem with your post is that you are speaking very generally - you talk about "people" like they aren't individuals - and don't have their own opinions. Not all people support the Weavers and not all people aren't sympathetic of the circumstances surrounding drug raids.

You mentioned a "different reaction" and since I try to avoid dealing in generalities - I took that as aimed directly at me - and I questioned it because as you can see from my posts - I don't react differently. I am vehemently opposed to the war on drugs and am upset by all government misconduct.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,733 posts, read 13,276,878 times
Reputation: 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
I see Agent 415 ignored this.

If you come shooting just what do you think you're going to get in return anyway?
Agent 415, I like that...

It's fairly standard protocol to neutralize any dogs or other trained animals that would divulge your location to someone who's armed with a gun, before that animal has a chance to warn that person.

The kid was carrying a Mini-14, which fires the same caliber bullet that the rifle that the agents who ultimately, and rightfully, shot him to death were firing. Again, you guys make it sound like he was just a salt-of-the-earth farm boy kickin' round his parents' property whistling dixie with his puppy when the big bad gummint came and murdered him. He was out on an armed patrol with an adult family friend.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,733 posts, read 13,276,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
There was no proof of this it all speculation......just cause a person is from Idaho and has guns doesn't make us nazi's or white supremacist. They could have waited this out they knew women and children were there. Plus they were sneaking in this is the real story..........

On August 21, 1992 a paramilitary unit of the U.S. Marshals Service ventured onto the 20-acre property known as Ruby Ridge. A man named Randy Weaver owned the land and he lived there with his wife, children, and a family friend, Kevin Harris. There was an outstanding warrant for Weaver’s arrest for a firearms offense and the marshals were surveilling the premises. When the family dog noticed the marshals sneaking around in the woods, it began to bark wildly. Weaver’s 14-year-old boy, Sammy, and Kevin Harris proceeded to grab their rifles because they thought the dog had come upon a wild animal.
A firefight erupted when a marshal shot and killed the dog. Enraged that the family pet had been cut down for no good reason, Sammy shot into the woods at the unidentified trespasser. Within a few minutes, two human beings were shot dead: Sammy Weaver and a marshal. Harris and the Weaver family retreated to their cabin and the marshals retreated from the mountain and called the FBI for assistance.

If you live in rural Idaho wild animals can be on your property and you can be in danger........the boy had every right to think something was after his dog or him. If the LEO had announced their selves things may have turned out different.


More at EndtheLie.com - End the Lie – Independent News | Ruby Ridge (Film + Official FBI Report)
The government agents said that they identified themselves. He said, she said.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,125 posts, read 21,913,064 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
It's fairly standard protocol to neutralize any dogs or other trained animals that would divulge your location to someone who's armed with a gun, before that animal has a chance to warn that person.
The agents has ROE in place to deal with the dog - which they failed to follow - just as they violated much of the rest of the ROE.
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,184,568 times
Reputation: 7949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
I have never understood the fetish that some right wingers have for Weaver and Ruby Ridge.

He did sell the illegal weapons and his friend and son had shot and killed a LEO already. The Weavers had refused to turn themselves in and were known to be heavily armed.
I am not surprised that a lefty wouldn't understand. It's just a reflection of the fact that today, the real liberals are on the right, while the left is 99 pct il-liberal.

Weaver did admit to illegally cutting down a shotgun barrel (1/4th inch under the legal limit), but was acquitted on the basis of entrapment, so as far as the law is concerned, he didn't commit the crime. He said he was desperate for money at the time and the BATF informant presented him with the deal.

Also the friend was acquitted of murder of the marshal on the basis of self defense.

I suppose you are fine with the feds running around targeting non-criminals and pestering them to see if they can be induced to commit some technical violation of the law. After all, that would be the illiberal position.
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