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Old 08-21-2012, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,247,292 times
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There are a lot of migrant workers around here picking our apple crop. They have been working all summer and will go back to Jamica for the winter. Only Yankees are dumb enough to stay around all winter.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,326,058 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
WIC is actually a program proven to work, it helps to feed kids whos parents are going through hard times, or struggling to get by. Poor people will have children, question is, should we feed them.

I often use WIC as an example of what food stamps should be, a voucher system, not a credit card that can buy almost everything in a grocery store.

And now we're talking about things with either no factual basis, or one offs.

I don't know about paying 5000 dollaars to a cartel smuggler, but giving poor folks a ride to a farm to pick crops doesn't seem like an unreasonable action to me. It puts them to work. Maybe after a few years of working on the farm they'll figure out its better for them to live there, instead of the city, so they'll save and find a house nearby. Most folks value their time, and sitting on a bus for two or four hours a day, after working a 10 hours shift takes a lot out of a person.

We could say take away all these peoples children, but that'll flood the nation with mouths to feed also. its simply more cost effective to have the parents do that, with federal and state help. Its also more cost effective to get that parent off their butt and drive them to a farm to pick fruit, then to do nothing at all.
If you had the choice of migrant farm work or having one baby on US soil, which would you pick ?
And with no fear of deportation and expanding social services they have it made in the US.

Many of these people are dirt poor and compared to conditions in Mexico they are living rich here.
You seem to think everyone strives for a middle class lifestyle when that is not true.

Poverty conditions in the US with all it's programs are many levels higher than what these people would get in Mexico.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,009,027 times
Reputation: 8620
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
If you had the choice of migrant farm work or having one baby on US soil, which would you pick ?
And with no fear of deportation and expanding social services they have it made in the US.

Many of these people are dirt poor and compared to conditions in Mexico they are living rich here.
You seem to think everyone strives for a middle class lifestyle when that is not true.

Poverty conditions in the US with all it's programs are many levels higher than what these people would get in Mexico.
People are going to have sex, farm job or not.

I'm saying that if you want that federal or state help, get on the bus, and go to work. The state will drive you to a job.

Its better to do that, then to let them sit on their butts all day. Michigan did that, people were driven to malls and farms for hourly work, every day. They got money for that, and state funds to help them stay in a home, and keep their kids feed and clothed, and in school.

While the program wasn't perfect, its a hell of a lot better then letting people sit on their butts and do nothing, forever.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:36 AM
 
640 posts, read 611,833 times
Reputation: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
But you did eat because of them. Money flows through lots of things, and derivatives help fund farm loans which allow them to operate at a lower cost.

Yeah, you didn't eat the derivative, but you did eat because of one.
Actually, as turns out, I ate despite of them...but we both know that's another story.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,009,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Allen 242 View Post
Actually, as turns out, I ate despite of them...but we both know that's another story.
So banks and loans have nothing to do with farms?
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 20,177,009 times
Reputation: 6482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
You're talking farmers in pick up trucks, right?
No. Personal vehicles were left in the lot where 5 ton utility trucks would pick us up, about 15-20 per truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I'm talking about the state saying "If you want state assistance to feed, house, and care for your family, we require you to work and here is a bus to get on. We'll drive you to a farm that has bought your labor for the day."
If they worked in the fields, they would not need state assistance. They would be earning anywhere from $111 to $216 per day. Whether or not they get paid overtime is up to the company that hires them. Agricultural workers are exempt from federal overtime laws, but some companies do pay overtime anyway.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,545,034 times
Reputation: 5692
This....what happens when welfare checks are more than minimum wage.....
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:50 AM
 
640 posts, read 611,833 times
Reputation: 587
Banks and loans, along with subsidies, have everything to do with farms. The repeal of Frank-Dodd and the rise of multi-teired derivatives are a different animal and it's logically inconsistent to imply a flaw in the system is equivalent to systemic implementation of subsidies.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:57 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,085,470 times
Reputation: 4247
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
This is so complicated and I'm sure nobody will read what I write so I'm not sure why I bother.......

If there are not enough workers why is the government agencies dropping the ball in allowing in legal migrant workers? If there are so many wanting to come here to work, why would one want to take the illegal route when the legal route should be the better option?
Because our worker immigrant laws and regulations are costly and slow. By the time all the paper work is approved the crops are either rotted or so green, that the farmer has to keep the worker around doing nothing at all for weeks, while he waits for harvest time. The laws and regs are in dire need of a complete overhaul
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,326,058 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
This....what happens when welfare checks are more than minimum wage.....
One could say the same for UE benefits as well.

When our social programs pay you more than if you tried to make it on your own the incentive is gone.
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