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Old 08-22-2012, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,282 posts, read 4,388,791 times
Reputation: 5667

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
I used to be a libertarian, back in the day. But not anymore. Libertarianism is just liberalism for high earners.

But, but, BUT - I can't believe the things I'm required to get a permit for. I need a permit to build a pergola or gazebo in my backyard. I need a permit for a microwave oven upstairs. For crying out loud. Is this just a California thing?
It is NOT a California thing. It is the result of government-gone-mad with power.

Re-read about Libertarians: it has NOTHING to do with wealth. All early Americans were Libertarians.

If you like to kiss some bureaucrat's tail for every move you make (and pay a fee/license/bribe), be a liberal. If you believe in American freedom, you're a Libertarian.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,347,125 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
WP was being disingenuous as usual. Undoubtedly the permit was not for the microwave oven but for the kitchen he was building in the 2nd floor addition. Kitchens require permits so the inspectors can check that the electrical service and plumbing were done properly as well as proper ventillation for the stove. This is to protect the current homeowner and any future purchasers from electrical fires or leaking pipes.

The gazebo permit is there to protect the neighbors from someone building a dangerous or a messy eyesore. The 200 ft stack of beer cans previously mentioned for example.
A permit doesn't prevent that.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,347,125 times
Reputation: 27564
So, say you want to replace an old shed in your backyard. Once upon a time you just tore it down and replaced it with a new shed. That was about it.

Not now. Here's one example that I found on the net. And to take down your old shed requires a demolition permit
And these are for those small sheds..the 8x10 types. This muncipality in MD has zoning specialists that approve your permit to put a HD 8x10 shed in the backyard. This is what people accept as BAU and see no problem with this process.

Are you all that afraid of beer cans cemented together to make a 9 story building in your next door neighbor's yard ?

Accessory Building and Shed Permit
Single-story sheds with a floor area of 200 square feet or less require a completed building permit application and two copies of a site plan. The site plan should be drawn to scale (1”=30’, 1”=20’) showing the size and location of the proposed shed, and all existing structures on the site, distances from lot lines, and drawn in accordance with an accurate boundary line survey. No construction plans are required. A zoning specialist will review these applications prior to issuance of permit.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:42 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,406,352 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Harrier <<<< moves to Texas!

Better get here quick and push hard to keep from all the liberals that have been moving here in droves from turning this state into another CA. Things are starting to go heavily left here now, but it is in its early stages. First they take over the local governments (look at Plano for example, it is a liberal cesspool) and they begin to spread out (Dallas has always been a liberal control, it is corrupt to the core). Eventually they take over the state and you have another CA.

My guess is that in the next 10-15 years, Texas will have a state tax and a heavy amount of regulations similar to CA/NY with tons of Nanny laws popping up everywhere (smoking bans, plastic bag bans, etc...).

I have seen a heck of a lot change here in just the 8 years since I have been here. It isn't going to get better, it is going to get worse.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:05 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,406,352 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
So, say you want to replace an old shed in your backyard. Once upon a time you just tore it down and replaced it with a new shed. That was about it.

Not now. Here's one example that I found on the net. And to take down your old shed requires a demolition permit
And these are for those small sheds..the 8x10 types. This muncipality in MD has zoning specialists that approve your permit to put a HD 8x10 shed in the backyard. This is what people accept as BAU and see no problem with this process.

Are you all that afraid of beer cans cemented together to make a 9 story building in your next door neighbor's yard ?

Accessory Building and Shed Permit
Single-story sheds with a floor area of 200 square feet or less require a completed building permit application and two copies of a site plan. The site plan should be drawn to scale (1”=30’, 1”=20’) showing the size and location of the proposed shed, and all existing structures on the site, distances from lot lines, and drawn in accordance with an accurate boundary line survey. No construction plans are required. A zoning specialist will review these applications prior to issuance of permit.
Yep, the city governments are some of the most tyrannical around. What is sad, is they are the easiest to fix, but people just don't seem to pay them any attention and so idiot tyrants keep getting elected to the councils.

when I was in CA, the city started this whole permit process to remove trees in your yard. What was once a cost of simply calling a person to come in and cut it down and haul it out is now a lengthy process. For example, a friend of mine used to have a weeping willow in his yard. They get pretty big, but they are a difficult tree to manage as they can break easily with strong winds and are difficult to keep diseases from. He still loved them though for their fast growth and ability to provide shade, so he would have them until there was an issue with it (it split, it got a disease, etc...) and then he would pull it out and replace it with another. Because he had access to the equipment for free, he always did the work himself. It cost him very little to remove and plant the new tree which he did a few times. Even if it did cost him to have someone else do it, he could have it down for under 1k (much less depending on the size).

Then, the city put in a new ordinace which required him to go through a lengthy process of permits, appraisals, and assessments. First he had to submit for a permit for request for removal (they banned people from being able to decide themselves and had to get the city to agree to allow him to remove his tree) which cost 300 dollars just to apply. Then, they had to have a city approved arborist (was the highest costing one who contracted through the city, and no, you couldn't use another one) which cost around 700 dollars to see if they would allow him to even remove the tree (which they would deny you removal of if it had a disease that the arborist assessed could be cured, regardless of cost and this was mandated, you couldn't refuse and let the tree die and you were required to use the city contracted arborist which was ridiculously expensive in cost ranging from 1-3k in treatments).

If they decided that you could remove it, you then had to gain the permit for removal which ran about 500 dollars more depending on size). Again, you had to use the city arborist to have it removed which rand around 2-5k for their services. No, you couldn't use someone cheaper, you had to use city selected one. On top of that, the service did not contain the cost for removal and disposal of the product and that contained another fee which was around 300+ depending on the size of the tree.

Oh, and if you decided to just go around them and do it, you will be fined a very healthy fine that exceeded the costs of having them do it.

So what originally was free or low cost for the most part turned into a major bureaucratically nightmare of excessive fees and costs to do something that anyone should have the right to do on their own property.

If you were thinking how the council was able to put through such a tyrannical ordinance? Well, at first it looked as if they wouldn't be able to because council meets are public and open (by law), but... the council saw a lot of fuss from their peasants and decided to simply do a closed session (counter to the law) and voted it through anyway. Such is par for many places in CA.

I got the hell out of that state as soon as I could, but others just "love" it I guess, but then... some people are better at being ruled than others. /shrug
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:09 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,406,352 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
It is NOT a California thing. It is the result of government-gone-mad with power.

Re-read about Libertarians: it has NOTHING to do with wealth. All early Americans were Libertarians.

If you like to kiss some bureaucrat's tail for every move you make (and pay a fee/license/bribe), be a liberal. If you believe in American freedom, you're a Libertarian.
No, it certainly is not relegated to just CA, but CA and a few other states have a strong head start over the others on this type of abuse.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:20 AM
 
32,160 posts, read 16,527,362 times
Reputation: 17250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
try living in the UK - you need to pay for a TV license there, to legally watch it.

and it's not that cheap either, and yes, you get caught quite easily if you don't have one!
You get the BBC. Living as I do in the land of 10,000 commercial channels, I have grown to appreciate TV content that stands on its own, rather than being 100% designed to provide advertisers a well-defined consumer segment.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:48 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,968,678 times
Reputation: 8963
Phoenix woman ordered not to give out bottled water in 112-degree weather unless shhe had a vending permit.

Phoenix Woman Ordered to Not Give Out Water in 112 Degree Heat Because She Lacked a Permit - Hit &amp; Run : Reason.com
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:00 AM
 
5,580 posts, read 3,646,566 times
Reputation: 5399
I've been remodeling a floor in my house, installed a new heat source, re did some wiring this past year, and could care less about this "permit" stuff in my city.

As far as I'm concerned, the interior of my home is my space, to do with as I please. I respect the need for controlling some of that which goes on with the exterior, for the health of the properties around mine.

Despite them wanting me to replace my garage roof for no apparent reason (so it's staying), I allow insurance people full access (never had to), but government can stop at the door. When I moved here I got many flyers from the assessors claiming that letting them asses my house meant a higher value on my home if I were to sell it. I already know though, assessment value means absolutely nothing. It's what another person is willing to pay.

This is something passed down through my family. We've only had an issue once with my parents place when they placed a shed out in the field for the horses. Technically though it wasn't an issue. The shed was just propped up on cinder blocks and could be pushed around, so didn't qualify as a permanent structure.

I get the safety issues behind many permits, and see to it that they're always met. I just don't agree with paying for permits to do the job properly.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:00 AM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,564,013 times
Reputation: 32341
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
WP was being disingenuous as usual. Undoubtedly the permit was not for the microwave oven but for the kitchen he was building in the 2nd floor addition. Kitchens require permits so the inspectors can check that the electrical service and plumbing were done properly as well as proper ventillation for the stove. This is to protect the current homeowner and any future purchasers from electrical fires or leaking pipes.
Exactly what I thought.

If he's built an illegal kitchen upstairs, he SHOULD be dinged on it. The laws are there for a reason (safety) and he's not above them. No one is. If you don't like them, move to someplace no one cares. (Though in his case I'd make sure the town fire department knew where I lived.)

CA has a lot of building codes that are a pain to deal with them. But when it comes to things like kitchens many of them are because CA has a propensity to shake, burn and flood. They actually serve a legitimate purpose for the good of the community as a whole. We had damage from a quake and when we rebuilt we made sure we were way ABOVE code to try and avoid future problems if another one hit.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 08-22-2012 at 11:19 AM..
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