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Old 09-10-2012, 02:54 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,938,655 times
Reputation: 1728

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Can't. That's the entire reason for my interest in the conspiracy theory. Without that, it's boring. It's not boring to see people throwing a hissy fit over jet contrails. In fact, it's downright entertaining, hence my participation in these threads.


Then do it, already! Sheesh!

Note: Videos of jets leaving contrails are NOT proof. They're videos of jets leaving contrails. Just wanted to make that clear before you re-posted the same trash again.



Like this?



That's the sky outside my office as of about five minutes ago. Tell me, what do you see there that proves your case? What am I supposed to see there that should convince me that what I'm looking at is anything other than what should be there?


...nothing out of the ordinary.
You are avoiding the whole point of my statement. Your own government is trying to tell you that aerosol spraying from aircraft is needed and they are ready to start the operation ... but you are not listening to what they are saying.

 
Old 09-10-2012, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,828 posts, read 31,665,817 times
Reputation: 12568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
You are avoiding the whole point of my statement. Your own government is trying to tell you that aerosol spraying from aircraft is needed and they are ready to start the operation ... but you are not listening to what they are saying.
You have provided no evidence to support this, so I'd say they aren't...They are just discussing options to various scenarios, until you show me evidence to the contrary.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 06:49 PM
 
174 posts, read 77,125 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You have provided no evidence to support this, so I'd say they aren't...They are just discussing options to various scenarios, until you show me evidence to the contrary.
Do you want a Government proclamation? Is this what you mean by "evidence"?

Do you believe Government proclamations?
 
Old 09-10-2012, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,828 posts, read 31,665,817 times
Reputation: 12568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
Do you want a Government proclamation? Is this what you mean by "evidence"?

Do you believe Government proclamations?
The government may be your enemy, but it's not mine....By evidence I mean valid peer reviewed research and tests by actual scientists...Got any?

I take the same stand as Isaac.... I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be.
― Isaac Asimov
 
Old 09-10-2012, 07:09 PM
 
174 posts, read 77,125 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The government may be your enemy, but it's not mine....By evidence I mean valid peer reviewed research and tests by actual scientists...Got any?

I take the same stand as Isaac.... “I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be. ”
― Isaac Asimov
Some people read evidence; some people ignore evidence; some conceal evidence; and some manipulate evidence.

Send your congressional representative a letter requesting congress to provide NIH with the funds to scientifically investigate the matter.

CAUTION: NIH has already declared Morgellon's disease to be a delusional parasitical disease where a delusional brain projects filamented boils onto the delusional person's skin.

Some people are just buggy.

"Delusional disorder is typically a chronic (ongoing) condition, but when properly treated, many people with this disorder can find relief from their symptoms. Some people recover completely and others experience episodes of delusional beliefs with periods of remission." http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/d...isorder?page=3

Last edited by Turbohead; 09-10-2012 at 07:32 PM..
 
Old 09-10-2012, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,692 posts, read 14,151,738 times
Reputation: 15870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
When I quoted >95F temperatures I was speaking ground temperature and you know it because I also asked you if you knew what "lapse rate" was.

You think you are so cute by twisting my words around to try and make it look like I don't know what I'm talking about.
You do not know what you are talking about. This is what you said.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Whatever you want to call it is fine with me but when I see thick non-dissipating trails spewing from aircraft ... on a very hot (>95F) and dry day... with the thick trails expanding over a short period of time to form a white hazy strange cloud filled sky's that significantly reduce sunlight in a period of a few hour ... I call that textbook geoengineering aerosol spraying.
The fact that you said, "... on a very hot (>95F) and dry day... " is irrefutable proof that you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of basic high school chemistry or high school physics or natural sciences or atmospheric science.

You don't even understand the world on which you live.

And I can't believe you've ever been airborne before.

I spent hundreds of hours in Kiowas, Hueys, Crash-hawks and Chinooks and froze my ass off, even on days when the temperature on ground was >90F.

Why?

Because.


Because of a thing called "gravity" and another called "atomic weights" and another called "molecular weight" and because the air pressure decreases as one increases in altitude, causing a decrease in volume with a corresponding decrease in density resulting in a corresponding decrease in temperature.

That's Boyles' Law, of which you have no understanding.

The ground temperature or temperature at seal level is totally irrelevant.

So is humidity.

Air temperature, pressure and density change at each 2,000 foot to 5,000 foot layer, which is why upper air layer data is reported at 2,000 foot or 5,000 foot intervals.

Whether the air temperature at ground level is 5F or 105F it matters not, because above 20,000 feet, the air temperature is below 0F -- but hey, don't let reality get in the way of your fantasy.

The fact that the air temperature is below 0F does not preclude the possibility that mass of warmer air -- about 40F --- might rise into that layer --- especially since that is how weather "works" warm air rises, cold air descends etc etc etc.

You're the one who said....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
....when I see thick non-dissipating trails spewing from aircraft ... on a very hot (>95F) and dry day....
You dug your own grave. I'm just piling dirt onto your coffin.

Whether it was a hot and dry day, hot and humid day, cold and dry day or cold and humid day makes no difference because at the altitude the airplane was flying...the air temperature was well below freezing...and so water vapor crystallizes....but you don't understand that.

And yes, the combustion (rapid oxidation) of any hydro-carbon produces water, carbon dioxide and various sulfur oxides, not to mention that compounds not combusted like benzene rings and such are also present.

So when do you plan on getting your GED?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
These aerosol spraying aircraft fly at under 40,000 feet. I never said they flew any higher ... those are your words.

You think you are so cute by twisting my words around to try and make it look like I don't know what I'm talking about.
Every single article you cited claimed

upper atmosphere = 18 km to 30 km or higher than 12 miles

Stratosphere = 18 km to 30 or higher than 12 miles

18 km to 30 km (or higher than 12 Miles)

18 km to 25 km (or higher than 12 Miles)

30 Miles.

Would you like me to embarrass you by listing them again?

Okay, then let's do that....here they are....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Solar-radiation management (SRM) would involve releasing megatonnes of light-scattering aerosol particles in theupper atmosphereto reduce Earths absorption of solar energy, thereby cooling the planet. Another technique would be to release particles of sea salt to make low-altitude clouds reflect more solar energy back into space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
The 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo, for example, cooled the planet by about 0.5 degrees Celsius in less than a year by injecting sulphur into the stratosphere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Big volcanoes cool the planet by placing lots of small particles in the stratosphere,...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
One proposal for cooling the planet is to use high-flying airplanes to constantly replenish a layer of small particles in the stratosphere that would scatter sunlight back to space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
A third set of simulations posited doubled carbon dioxide, but with a layer of sulfate aerosols in the stratosphere deflecting about 2% of incoming sunlight away from Earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
The scientists, who advocate geoengineering methods such as spraying millions of tonnes of reflective particles of sulphur dioxide 30 miles above earth,...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Solar geoengineering techniques are highly controversial: while some climate scientists believe they may prove a quick and relatively cheap way to slow global warming, others fear that when conducted in the upper atmosphere, they could irrevocably alter rainfall patterns and interfere with the earth's climate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Professors David Keith, of Harvard University, and Ken Caldeira of Stanford, [see footnote] are the world's two leading advocates of major research into geoengineering the upper atmosphere to provide earth with a reflective shield.
[emphasis mine in all cases]

Why do they keep saying "upper atmosphere" and "stratosphere" Don9?

Can you answer that simple question? The question is quite relevant, because there is a reason you cannot Geo-engineer below 11 miles/18 km.

Every person on City-Data knows the answer...and there is a very valid, legitimate, logical, scientific answer.....

....but you and your clown posse can't answer such a simple question because your knowledge of Earth science, of natural science, of atmospheric science is ZERO.

So are you going to answer that simple question or not?

And whose words am I twisting?

I'm quoting you directly as well as quoting your sources directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
This is typical Marxist liberal (Saul Alinsky) tactics and only shows you can't argue a point head-to-head without cheating and lying. You have been debunked!
That's rich. What kind of loser has to resort to labeling an ultra-conservative as a Marxist Liberal? I have to believe that you have some kind of persecution complex, which is an indicator of mental illness.

If there's any cheating or lying, it's on your part. I merely quoted you directly -- you did all the work yourself.

No doubt you refuse to see, but everyone else on this thread hasn't missed the fact that you've never once addressed any of the evidence presented, and that you have been in constant full retreat -- waffling and flip-flopping for 62 pages on your position.

Are you going to answer the question, "Why is it necessary to conduct Geo-engineering in the upper atmosphere/stratosphere?" or not?

No longer wondering why the US fails math and science against all other countries...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Why are these Geochemical spraying missions being done? What is the reason for these operations?
No, there is no Geo-engineering.

Don't read any of the articles anyone else posted, just read those posted by DonIQof9.

It's entirely hypothetical/theoretical. Everything is done using computer modeling and simulations -- the articles so state.

There is a reason why these are only proposals and research, and why they're only running computer simulations.

The reason is that there are no aircraft capable of Geo-engineering in the upper atmosphere, because nearly all aircraft are limited to 40,000 to 42,000 feet, excepting military combat aircraft, which are limited to ~60,000 feet (11 Miles) although they can briefly exceed that (the MiG-25 and F-15 are two examples of aircraft that can exceed the upper limit just long enough to lock and launch an ASAT missile).

I would tell you more, but I'm waiting for Don9 to answer a simple question, "Why is it necessary to conduct Geo-engineering in the upper atmosphere/stratosphere?"

He has no Earth science, natural science, atmospheric science, chemistry or physics skills, so he cannot answer the question....he doesn't even know where to begin to look for the answer, due the fact that his knowledge is so incredibly lacking.

And the reason for the theoretical research?

No reason. Suffice to say that on numerous threads I've stated that of all the things to fear -- asteroid/comet impacts, nuclear war, famine, plague etc etc etc the thing to fear most is scientists --especially the ones filled with pride -- they'll kill off all humans before anything else could.

Anyway, before you drink Don9's Kool-Aid go read the thread where he claims HAARP caused the massive earthquake in Japan earlier in the year (that everyone has since forgotten).

Commenting...

Mircea
 
Old 09-10-2012, 07:59 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,685,018 times
Reputation: 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I wonder why the major media sources have not been investigating a project of this magnitude and importance.
Because they are keeping it secret.

By spreading it from planes they don't want anyone to know about.

Which they launch from a public airport right outside the second largest city in Arizona.

(snicker)
 
Old 09-10-2012, 08:06 PM
 
174 posts, read 77,125 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Don9 -
[color=black][font=Verdana]I wonder why the major media sources have not been investigating a project of this magnitude and importance.
I'd like to see minor media charter a 737 with filtered intakes and tailgate some trailers for evidence evaluation by an independent laboratory.

Wouldn't cost that much.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 08:15 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,938,655 times
Reputation: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You do not know what you are talking about. This is what you said.....



The fact that you said, "... on a very hot (>95F) and dry day... " is irrefutable proof that you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of basic high school chemistry or high school physics or natural sciences or atmospheric science.

You don't even understand the world on which you live.

And I can't believe you've ever been airborne before.

I spent hundreds of hours in Kiowas, Hueys, Crash-hawks and Chinooks and froze my ass off, even on days when the temperature on ground was >90F.

Why?

Because.


Because of a thing called "gravity" and another called "atomic weights" and another called "molecular weight" and because the air pressure decreases as one increases in altitude, causing a decrease in volume with a corresponding decrease in density resulting in a corresponding decrease in temperature.

That's Boyles' Law, of which you have no understanding.

The ground temperature or temperature at seal level is totally irrelevant.

So is humidity.

Air temperature, pressure and density change at each 2,000 foot to 5,000 foot layer, which is why upper air layer data is reported at 2,000 foot or 5,000 foot intervals.

Whether the air temperature at ground level is 5F or 105F it matters not, because above 20,000 feet, the air temperature is below 0F -- but hey, don't let reality get in the way of your fantasy.

The fact that the air temperature is below 0F does not preclude the possibility that mass of warmer air -- about 40F --- might rise into that layer --- especially since that is how weather "works" warm air rises, cold air descends etc etc etc.

You're the one who said....



You dug your own grave. I'm just piling dirt onto your coffin.

Whether it was a hot and dry day, hot and humid day, cold and dry day or cold and humid day makes no difference because at the altitude the airplane was flying...the air temperature was well below freezing...and so water vapor crystallizes....but you don't understand that.

And yes, the combustion (rapid oxidation) of any hydro-carbon produces water, carbon dioxide and various sulfur oxides, not to mention that compounds not combusted like benzene rings and such are also present.

So when do you plan on getting your GED?



Every single article you cited claimed

upper atmosphere = 18 km to 30 km or higher than 12 miles

Stratosphere = 18 km to 30 or higher than 12 miles

18 km to 30 km (or higher than 12 Miles)

18 km to 25 km (or higher than 12 Miles)

30 Miles.

Would you like me to embarrass you by listing them again?

Okay, then let's do that....here they are....


















[emphasis mine in all cases]

Why do they keep saying "upper atmosphere" and "stratosphere" Don9?

Can you answer that simple question? The question is quite relevant, because there is a reason you cannot Geo-engineer below 11 miles/18 km.

Every person on City-Data knows the answer...and there is a very valid, legitimate, logical, scientific answer.....

....but you and your clown posse can't answer such a simple question because your knowledge of Earth science, of natural science, of atmospheric science is ZERO.

So are you going to answer that simple question or not?

And whose words am I twisting?

I'm quoting you directly as well as quoting your sources directly.



That's rich. What kind of loser has to resort to labeling an ultra-conservative as a Marxist Liberal? I have to believe that you have some kind of persecution complex, which is an indicator of mental illness.

If there's any cheating or lying, it's on your part. I merely quoted you directly -- you did all the work yourself.

No doubt you refuse to see, but everyone else on this thread hasn't missed the fact that you've never once addressed any of the evidence presented, and that you have been in constant full retreat -- waffling and flip-flopping for 62 pages on your position.

Are you going to answer the question, "Why is it necessary to conduct Geo-engineering in the upper atmosphere/stratosphere?" or not?

No longer wondering why the US fails math and science against all other countries...

Mircea



No, there is no Geo-engineering.

Don't read any of the articles anyone else posted, just read those posted by DonIQof9.

It's entirely hypothetical/theoretical. Everything is done using computer modeling and simulations -- the articles so state.

There is a reason why these are only proposals and research, and why they're only running computer simulations.

The reason is that there are no aircraft capable of Geo-engineering in the upper atmosphere, because nearly all aircraft are limited to 40,000 to 42,000 feet, excepting military combat aircraft, which are limited to ~60,000 feet (11 Miles) although they can briefly exceed that (the MiG-25 and F-15 are two examples of aircraft that can exceed the upper limit just long enough to lock and launch an ASAT missile).

I would tell you more, but I'm waiting for Don9 to answer a simple question, "Why is it necessary to conduct Geo-engineering in the upper atmosphere/stratosphere?"

He has no Earth science, natural science, atmospheric science, chemistry or physics skills, so he cannot answer the question....he doesn't even know where to begin to look for the answer, due the fact that his knowledge is so incredibly lacking.

And the reason for the theoretical research?

No reason. Suffice to say that on numerous threads I've stated that of all the things to fear -- asteroid/comet impacts, nuclear war, famine, plague etc etc etc the thing to fear most is scientists --especially the ones filled with pride -- they'll kill off all humans before anything else could.

Anyway, before you drink Don9's Kool-Aid go read the thread where he claims HAARP caused the massive earthquake in Japan earlier in the year (that everyone has since forgotten).

Commenting...

Mircea
I'm not going to read your crap let alone respond on a point by point basis. You keep throwing out lies and claiming I say things that I don't. You try cherry picking words and sentences, that I don't even write, and then come up with a BS counter statement that is wrong, out of context and then you think you you have debunked the whole thread which is totally wrong and shows your dirty sneaky tactics. You have not proved a thing but on the other hand I have provide information from the Obama administration and geoengineering scientist. See ... I'm not personally claiming anything in this thread ... I'm just providing the information from your government and geoengineering science community. So your wasting your time trying to invalidate this thread when you don't even attempt to counter the Obama administration or geoengineering scientist.

BTW: If you are claiming you are a conservative ... then that's yet another lie. You have shown over and over again that you are anything but conservative. Your tactics follow the Marxist liberal playbook completely ... which includes telling your opponents you are a conservative.
 
Old 09-10-2012, 09:33 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,376,698 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
Some people read evidence; some people ignore evidence; some conceal evidence; and some manipulate evidence.

Send your congressional representative a letter requesting congress to provide NIH with the funds to scientifically investigate the matter.

CAUTION: NIH has already declared Morgellon's disease to be a delusional parasitical disease where a delusional brain projects filamented boils onto the delusional person's skin.

Some people are just buggy.

"Delusional disorder is typically a chronic (ongoing) condition, but when properly treated, many people with this disorder can find relief from their symptoms. Some people recover completely and others experience episodes of delusional beliefs with periods of remission." Mental Health and Delusional Disorder
I see you still haven't figured out what the topic of this thread is, let me refresh your memory:

"Why in the World are They Spraying"
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