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View Poll Results: Which President Radically Changed America More?
Abraham Lincoln 31 33.33%
Theodore Roosevelt 5 5.38%
Franklin Roosevelt 33 35.48%
Lyndon Johnson 7 7.53%
Richard Nixon 1 1.08%
Barak Obama 16 17.20%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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I don't see Obam ahavig chnaged american just enflame difference and caused more clear divisons. We now are seeig a swing the other way.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:40 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,038,764 times
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Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I don't see Obam ahavig chnaged american just enflame difference and caused more clear divisons. We now are seeig a swing the other way.
Yes the American public are total idiots who are just sitting around to have their passions inflamed. I think not. The current divisions remind me of the election of 1860. Before Lincoln ever set foot into the White House the slave owning interest where up in arms about policies that Lincoln had no intention of enacting. Even his modest proposal of simply limiting the expansion of slavery into the territories was considered to be tyrannical and a usurpation of God's Laws. Frankly swap healthcare for slavery and it's hard to draw a distinction in the rhetoric (well other than the fact that the slave interest didn't have Hitler or Stalin for the purpose of making outlandish comparisons.).
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:43 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,368,986 times
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Yes the American public are total idiots who are just sitting around to have their passions inflamed. I think not. The current divisions remind me of the election of 1860. Before Lincoln ever set foot into the White House the slave owning interest where up in arms about policies that Lincoln had no intention of enacting. Even his modest proposal of simply limiting the expansion of slavery into the territories was considered to be tyrannical and a usurpation of God's Laws. Frankly swap healthcare for slavery and it's hard to draw a distinction in the rhetoric (well other than the fact that the slave interest didn't have Hitler or Stalin for the purpose of making outlandish comparisons.).
...well, that and the fact that we're now $16 trillion in debt. But who's counting? And I suppose if you're going to be really picky, you could say there's a HUGE difference between slavery and universal healthcare.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:33 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,038,764 times
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Originally Posted by Big George View Post
But who's counting? And I suppose if you're going to be really picky, you could say there's a HUGE difference between slavery and universal healthcare.
Not according to what I read around these here parts.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:54 PM
 
Location: NY
9,131 posts, read 20,004,714 times
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Actually, isn't it the Republican Party that is trying to radically change America?
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,816,879 times
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Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
The problem with America is that conservatives are stupid, and there are too many conservatives in America.
Better dump this whole liberal and conservative thing. BOTH are quite stupid...so what do you have left?
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,330,002 times
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Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
The problem with America is that conservatives are stupid, and there are too many conservatives in America.
"Stupid" meaning anyone who doesn't swallow your spoon-fed agenda, I suppose?
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,330,002 times
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America has had four "pivotal" presidents -- leaders whose decisons brought about a basic change in the nation's structure and long-term goals; they were:

(1) Washington, who could have set himself up as just another strongman, but chose to participate in the framing of the most answerable Constitutional system yet devised

(2) Lincoln, who held the union together, and lost his life in the process

(3) Franklin Roosevelt -- a patrician who understood the common man well enough to devise a safety net suited to an industrialized society (thereby heading off more radical and authoritarian proposals from both left and right)

(4) Reagan -- who corrected the excesses of fifty years of rule by one economic philosophy -- thereby setting off a huge recovery, (and in the process, forcing the last of the great dictatorships of Europe to collapse -- with minimal bloodshed).

Barack Obama is nowhere close to playing in that league, nor were either of the two Bushes; Clinton was, at best, a double-A player

We have some very serious safety valves tied down. A deficit run up by the economically ignorant from both parties -- foisted, courtesty of Madison Avenue, upon a public that expects too much and can't admit that either global competiton is here to stay, or one day we will settle differences with nuclear warheads.

If elected, Romney isn't likely to have the backbone to explain the problem as outlined above, even if he does understand it. My most serious beef with Obama is the collection of rubber-stamping mediocrities he has foisted upon the nation's highest court, and the consequnces this would have for judicial integrity over the long run.

Sooner or later, the workings of supply and demand will make themselves felt -- more readily now that more nations have moved in the direction of open markets. So the only question is how much damage we will do to wourselves before experience forces us to wise up.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:18 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,288,448 times
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Seems to me Obama is just running his government on the ideals of Liberalism or collectivism which the majority of voters voted him in to do.Nothing new its what Democrat leaders do.
Romney would probably exhibit a more clearly defined change in his striving for a more individualistic government whereby much social government social programs are cut and the middle class and poor are expected to pay the lions share of the ensuing sacrifice as Romneys individualistic style of government puts every one on their own,nice if you are rich, not so nice if you are likely to require government assistance or any of the myriad of government programs.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,330,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Romney would probably exhibit a more clearly defined change in his striving for a more individualistic government whereby much social government social programs are cut and the middle class and poor are expected to pay the lions share of the ensuing sacrifice as Romneys individualistic style of government puts every one on their own,nice if you are rich, not so nice if you are likely to require government assistance or any of the myriad of government programs.
Really?? If Reagan, Bush, or even Ron Paul never pushed anything so draconian, what leads you to believe that Romney, a veteran of leadership in liberal Massachusetts, would?

It's time to separate the Lefty scare-tactics from the practice of realpolitik.
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