Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sure...and like any other paying customer, they needed to obey the rules of the house. Simple as that.
This sentence is TOTALLY logical when talking about a business that just got ***** slapped for breaking the rules.
Gotta love it.
Quote:
Nobody likes bullies...and eventually the bullied hit back, and hit back hard.
This is true, as the owners of the Wildflower Inn can attest to. That was $30,000 worth of getting hit back, hard.
Quote:
The GL will not like it if the worm ever turns...and they won't be able to do a dad-gum thing about it...
Thankfully, the majority of my generation is accepting of homosexuality, and within the next 10 years we will likely see gay marriage legalized nationwide, and the kids and grandkids of my generation will look back on this with the same "wtf were they thinking" views as we do for the civil rights issue.
A business doesn't have beliefs. But a business owner(s) does. And in a free society, s/he/they should have the right to make decisions concerning the said business. It doesn't belong to "you" or the "government".
This isn't a free society, and the government places regulations on businesses. We are a society of laws, if you break one of them, you pay the penalty for it.
Black folks don't choose their skin color. Please stop comparing adult sexuality to a civil rights issue. Gay folks were not brought here as slaves.
And gay people don't choose their sexual orientation. It's a perfectly valid comparison because both are innate characteristics. The only difference I will grant you is that being black is usually harder to hide than being gay. But that's not always the case either. There are plenty of mixed blacks who I can't tell are black, and plenty of gays who stand out like a rainbow painted unicorn.
And gay people have been heavily oppressed throughout history. Imprisonment, harmful "therapy" methods like ECT, execution, assault, etc. Just because blacks were slaves doesn't mean others haven't been oppressed. And the exact same arguments that led to the oppression of blacks (the Bible) are what are being thrown at gays.
Yes. But some laws are so draconian and extreme it interferes with doing business. And staying open. Okay...small inn in Vermont, probably relies on lots of townsfolk for workers, goods, services, and a customer base. Small towns are not known to be liberal like big city folk. Okay? The owners of this inn probably go to church in town with other folks, who may host business Christmas parties, have catered lunches...lots of money. And maybe this inn does not want to offend other people. Blowing off one gay couple might have just been a business decision of a conservative family oriented business that did not want to go to the next chamber of commerace luncheon, with folks thinking that they are advertising wedding receptions in "Lesbian Times" magazine.
I am not saying it is correct. I just know how things work in a small, very conservative town.
Yes. But some laws are so draconian and extreme it interferes with doing business. And staying open.
I don't think anti-discrimination laws are "extreme".
Quote:
Okay...small inn in Vermont, probably relies on lots of townsfolk for workers, goods, services, and a customer base. Small towns are not known to be liberal like big city folk. Okay?
Well, Vermont is one of, if not the most liberal states in the country. Perhaps said business owner should have looked into their laws before opening the business, or engaging in discriminatory behavior?
The only difference I will grant you is that being black is usually harder to hide than being gay.
Huge difference. Nobody ever has to speculate about my race. It can not be changed nor can it be made to look changed, although Lord knows Micheal Jackson tried. I can't pretend to be a different race, it is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
There are plenty of mixed blacks who I can't tell are black....
This on the other hand, is a better comparison. The only reason you know those people are black is because they tell you. They can chose to hide their race or they can embrace it but their public identity is up to them. I will also tell you that they tend not to be discriminated against as much; trust me, the blacker your skin the worse some bigots respond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
...and plenty of gays who stand out like a rainbow painted unicorn.
I agree and I am sure they experience more difficulties than those who can blend in better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
And gay people have been heavily oppressed throughout history. Imprisonment, harmful "therapy" methods like ECT, execution, assault, etc. Just because blacks were slaves doesn't mean others haven't been oppressed. And the exact same arguments that led to the oppression of blacks (the Bible) are what are being thrown at gays.
Many, many, many groups of people have been oppressed: Jews, Slavs, Native Americans, the Poor, the Obese, Lutherans, Communists, Poles, Mongols, Tibetans, and the list could go on and on. Religion has often been used by the charlatans of society to excuse their own poor behavior, including against the founders of our nation. They are in a different category than sincere, essentially kind people who truly believe in what they are saying. I don't agree with much of Islam's tenets but I absolutely believe I should respect their beliefs if I can. And by that, I mean the Arab shopkeeper doesn't have to sell me hummus (which has happened) or the Amish woman sell me a quilt (which has happened), there are other places that would be more than happy to do business with me. The Wildflower Inn didn't ask them not to be married just to not have a party with them. There were other places they could have a party.
Now, if we were talking about a public entity, that would be a totally different story, they don't get to have religious qualms.
Are you assuming these women "made their orientation known?" Do you have any reason to believe this - like a photo showing them in rainbow-flag shirts, or giant female-female tattoos on their arms? Maybe they just booked the hotel, and said something as innocent as "my wife and I would like to book a reception?" If that were the case (and we're ALL speculating here), they'd be no more guilty of flaunting their orientation than any straight person.
My male co-worker mentioned his girlfriend earlier... I really wish he'd keep that nasty stuff to himself, as I have no desire to hear about his sexual orientation or behavior.
Not legally relevant, just to clarify how the Inn knew they were lesbians, one of the woman's mothers was arranging the reception and told the Inn employee the couple would be "bride and bride."
I don't think anti-discrimination laws are "extreme". Well, Vermont is one of, if not the most liberal states in the country. Perhaps said business owner should have looked into their laws before opening the business, or engaging in discriminatory behavior?
Just to clarify. The ssm law was passed years After the Inn opened.
When Vermont had civil unions, the Inn policy was approved by the Vermont Human Rights Commission.
A business doesn't have beliefs. But a business owner(s) does. And in a free society, s/he/they should have the right to make decisions concerning the said business. It doesn't belong to "you" or the "government".
No, the "gay" couple decided to enforce their morality upon the owners of the business, by spending their money their. They could have easily gone elsewhere. Even opened their own business...
Sure...and like any other paying customer, they needed to obey the rules of the house. Simple as that.
Anyway, after all this speel is over? Yeah, it is "discrimination", of a sort. But it is also discrimination based upon freedoms instrinsic to that which founded the country in terms of freedom of religion, speech...etc. There really IS such a thing as rational discrimination...and I bet you and every one of us practice it every day of our lives in some form or fashion. Hell, I know we all do.
My gawd! As many have said, this was nothing more than a temper tantrum thrown and, hell, it doesn't even help the gay/left cause in the least. Many of us conservatives have gay friends (I do) and have nothing against them whatsoever. I know at least a few who are actually conservative on many issues.
*considers* But of course, in some ways, this might be welcome for those of us who still believe in certain things. That is to say, the more leftist/gay activists are actually revealed for how they get their way, and what it means? Then the closer it comes to its own demise. Nobody likes bullies...and eventually the bullied hit back, and hit back hard.
The GL will not like it if the worm ever turns...and they won't be able to do a dad-gum thing about it...
Don't count on it my friend since most young people are accepting of gay rights, gay marriage, and have no tolerance for discrimination. Society moves forward not backward. Pretty much all of my friends cheered this decision because they find the concept wrong.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
