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Who forces you to participate in godless secularism?
The godless secular state.
(Cue fake confused look and demand for examples).
OK, here's one: my taxes pay for godless secular schools to teach your godless secular children falsehoods about evolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPSGuy
Nobody is saying you can't have your Christian beliefs.. Just that the public sector shouldn't cater to you because you belong to an organized religion.
The public sector should cater to the public, and much of the public is religious.
I don't know the answer and am just asking the question at this point. While the First Amendment once protected the rights of Christians in the United States, today it seems to be chasing Christianity back into the catacombs.
How is it possible to be "neutral" towards the Creator of the universe and the Lord of all nations? It isn't. Every man, and every nation, has to choose: whom shall you serve?
Some people are obviously DITCHING common sense.
If anyone is chasing Christianity back into the catacombs, it's their fellow Christians doing it. There aren't enough numbers of any other group with the ability to do it.
Frankly, chasing it back into the catacombs doesn't sound like a bad idea to me personally, but i respect the rights of people to believe what they want so long as they don't keep bothering me with it and attempting to inscribe it into our laws.
The public sector should cater to the public, and much of the public is religious.
In other words-- might makes right, weight of numbers (sometimes distorted by populist short-sight) should determine everything, and the end justifies the means.
And when (not if) that idea fails, likely with a lot of blood spilled, we can return to the days when decisions were made by a self-perpetuating oligarchy in isolation.
OK, here's one: my taxes pay for godless secular schools to teach your godless secular children falsehoods about evolution.
Also known as "science."
There's nothing saying you can't teach your children that the Bible is literal truth, but there's no reason for me to have to subsidize that either. You seem to be under some delusion that teaching science is somehow "anti-religious."
I suppose that if you had your way, my tax dollars would go toward teaching young people that I'm evil, that I'm going to hell, and that I should be locked up until I repent of my sinful ways. Now why would I support that?
What you are proposing is a full blown eradication of public education replaced by 100% private funds for individual's children. This would result in a full scale chaos and even worsen the level of class displacement in this country. The top 10% would get fine education. Then the bottom wouldn't even be taught evolution and given a chance to succeed.
I see no sound prescription for success inherent in teaching impressionable young minds that all life magically sprang forth from a single bacteria. Those that embrace such absurdity do not distance themselves from the beliefs that they call crazy.
Prior to the discovery of DNA ... and the generally accepted idea born of the dark ages of emerging science, that life simply manifests on it's own, out of thin air, and entailed no mystery at all ... today, we have more than enough evidence to reject such antiquated nonsense.
The complexity of a biological cell is too immense for rationally accepting the belief that it came into existence by mere chance mixing of raw elements. DNA is the final nail in the coffin of evolutionist theories explaining the existence of life. It doesn't explain who or what is responsible for the existence of life, but does prove beyond rational doubt that it was not random occurrence. That DNA is both a biological storage device for data, and contains structured data in the form of specific language instructions for cell replication proves design, not happenstance .... scientifically speaking, and not some irrational belief. The DNA code is exponentially more complex than any computer operating system that has ever been designed by man, and no one would be so inanely ignorant to believe for a second that the Microsoft Operating System, or Apple's OSX could have come into existence by random generation of ones and zeros. Quite to the contrary, all of the necessary elements inherent in design for a purpose exists in DNA, just as clearly as the inner workings of an expensive swiss watch.
Those believing that life sprang forth spontaneously would have to be amenable to the idea that Mt Rushmore could have been created by natural erosion. We humans have long possessed the fundamental skill of distinguishing between acts of nature and design constructs. A natural shelter provided by plant foliage, versus a thatched hut .... a spherical rock versus a wheel with spokes ... we don't confuse one with the other. Yet, somehow, a significant portion have been convinced to accept the absurdity that this extremely complex, highly structured mechanism of life we call DNA was formed naturally and without intention? It's beyond anything remotely resembling rational thought, let alone sound science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPSGuy
This would never happen unless Tennessee exceeded. Look, I agree, the public education system is horrible and needs repaired badly. I agree that government is very wasteful and needs cleaned badly. But the whole purpose of a government in civilized nations is to provide the public with he needs for civilization including education, police, fire, roads, bridges, etc. Taking education and making it entirely private would be mass chaos.
That's not true at all .. government cannot provide anything ... as government has nothing itself to provide that it doesn't first acquire from people.
So many inaccurately refer to "government" as if it were some autonomous entity of it's own design, when it is nothing more than a concept. And like all concepts, the purpose may vary according to the conceivers. In our case ... the "American" form of government was conceived not to "rule over" the people, but to defend the principle of individual liberty possessed naturally, by the people.
The very idea that government will dictate the course of anything, including education, is totally antithetical to that original concept of American government.
I don't know the answer and am just asking the question at this point. While the First Amendment once protected the rights of Christians in the United States, today it seems to be chasing Christianity back into the catacombs.
Incorrect. First Amendment was designed to protect certain rights of EVERY person, Christian or not. If anything, it was designed to protect rights of non-Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim
The godless secular state.
"Secular" has nothing to do with Godly or Godless. It has to do with neutrality.
Some examples from the report:
-- The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs at one point prohibited references to God in funerals at national cemeteries, a policy invalidated by a federal court.
-- A Texas city barred citizens at a public senior adult center from praying before meals, singing Christian songs or listening to religious messages.
-- Public school officials in Texas banned students from bringing gifts for classmates that referred to Jesus or contained other religious messages, actions that elicited censure by federal courts.
-- A Texas city outlawed a Christian ministry to former prisoners from operating within its jurisdiction, an action rejected by the state's Supreme Court.
-- A federal appeals court ruled that prayers before local government meetings violate the establishment clause.
Sorry but anything the FRC posts is rubbish. They claim that their beliefs are being attacked, guess what? So is every other religion, worldview, philosophy, etc. and guess who is attacking them? Christians...If you feel you have the right to dish it out, you better realized we have the right to dish it right back.
If some high school kid wanted to say an Islamic prayer or thank Allah in their speech would you think that is ok? What if an atheist high school student wanted to say something about there being no god in their speech?
This is the problem with most christians. They think everyone should listen to what they say about their beliefs, but when other people want to share their religious beliefs they whine and throw a fit.
OK, here's one: my taxes pay for godless secular schools to teach your godless secular children falsehoods about evolution.
The public sector should cater to the public, and much of the public is religious.
Honestly, I can't really debate with somebody who is against the tax money being used for properly educating the children of this country. You are one that would want to take away all the science, mathematics, and literature the human race has ever came up with because of a ridiculous non-logical fairy tale that you believe in because of faith. There is really no arguing with people who use faith because faith is a simple way to blocking off use of logic and reason. I respect that we do give people with your mindset the freedom to express your opinions. This isn't because I feel that they are worthwhile, but more that they are rather entertaining.
Christianity retreats to make room for the state religion of Secularism.
Do you think they could move a little faster? It might go quicker if they all stop playing the oppression card. How can a religion that makes up 70%+ of the USA population be oppressed and persecuted?
That's like saying humans are endangered species... ignorant.
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Quite to the contrary, all of the necessary elements inherent in design for a purpose exists in DNA, just as clearly as the inner workings of an expensive swiss watch. 
