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I would probably guess that if we need to define a law based on this situation it's going to boil down to "innocent by reason of insaity". Suicidal individuals are not in their right mind and we have no humanly possible way of determining things in any more detail than that. Accept it.
I think the term used now is "guilty but insane" and possibly would apply in this case. If that verdict is found, then it usually means hospitalization rather than being sent to prison.
Why is it that if this woman does it, it's murder but if a doctor does it, it's just another late term abortion?
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Originally Posted by tinynot
If a doctor performs an abortion on a 33 week gestation baby, it is murder. Many premature babies at 31 to 33 week have a high survival rate. They are fully formed and viable outside the mother.
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Originally Posted by jazzarama
Are you sure about that ?
According to the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute ---
"even after fetal viability, states may not prohibit abortions "necessary to preserve the life or health" of the woman; "health" includes physical and mental health."
If the woman found a doc who'd do it, I think she could have legally aborted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
Partial birth abortion is a type of abortion procedure. Despite the headline, the federal ban on pba's doesn't ban late term abortions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
Whoever invented the term, the ban on pba doesn't ban late term abortions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
Please, inform me how one would abort a 32 week old fetus and the reason why it would have to be done to protect a womans life?
And then seperately, her health.
Lastly, the argument was that it couldn't be done. It was.
Physicians do not "abort" healthy fetuses at 33 weeks. There may be indications to deliver a baby at 33 weeks, either for the benefit of the mother or for the benefit of the baby. However, the intent is to get a live, healthy baby. Survival rates at 33 weeks are now about 95%.
In this case, the baby was delivered for a fetal indication: evidence that the baby was in distress. There was no abortion. There was no miscarriage. This was a neonatal death that was a direct result of the mother's suicide attempt. I am assuming the poison that she took was one that contained a blood thinner that is contraindicated in pregnancy because it can cause specifically the condition that killed the baby. It does not help her case that she left a note stating that it was her intent to kill herself and the baby. To my mind, that creates a reasonable case to charge her with attempted feticide. She did not commit feticide because the baby was born alive. The murder charge stems from the fact that the baby was alive at the time of birth, but she died later as a direct effect of the poison.
I agree that we have to hold the mother to the same standard that we would hold a third party, such as an abusive partner.
So I do think she has to bear responsibility for what she did.
I also think that her mental status at the time of the suicide attempt needs to be taken into consideration. That should influence her sentencing if she is found guilty. I admit that I have a problem believing that she was clinically depressed. She sounds more like she was angry and did something impulsive.
Although I am pro choice, I do not think this case would do any of the things that have been mentioned as far as setting precedents is concerned. It has nothing to do with spontaneous abortions, miscarriages, and stillbirths.
Physicians do not "abort" healthy fetuses at 33 weeks. There may be indications to deliver a baby at 33 weeks, either for the benefit of the mother or for the benefit of the baby. However, the intent is to get a live, healthy baby. Survival rates at 33 weeks are now about 95%.
In this case, the baby was delivered for a fetal indication: evidence that the baby was in distress. There was no abortion. There was no miscarriage. This was a neonatal death that was a direct result of the mother's suicide attempt. I am assuming the poison that she took was one that contained a blood thinner that is contraindicated in pregnancy because it can cause specifically the condition that killed the baby. It does not help her case that she left a note stating that it was her intent to kill herself and the baby. To my mind, that creates a reasonable case to charge her with attempted feticide. She did not commit feticide because the baby was born alive. The murder charge stems from the fact that the baby was alive at the time of birth, but she died later as a direct effect of the poison.
I agree that we have to hold the mother to the same standard that we would hold a third party, such as an abusive partner.
So I do think she has to bear responsibility for what she did.
I also think that her mental status at the time of the suicide attempt needs to be taken into consideration. That should influence her sentencing if she is found guilty. I admit that I have a problem believing that she was clinically depressed. She sounds more like she was angry and did something impulsive.
Although I am pro choice, I do not think this case would do any of the things that have been mentioned as far as setting precedents is concerned. It has nothing to do with spontaneous abortions, miscarriages, and stillbirths.
A pretty rational position. I will note that many of the quotes were where conversations naturally got off on tangents and not directly related to this case, but again, a very rational position.
your reply to me telling a poster to google for a list of life threatening issues for a late term abortion. do you just skim over the posts that have listed the numerous medical reasons for late term that have been posted before? or are you putting your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand because you just don't wanna know. yeah I could list them but then why would I if you and other anti choicers will ignore them anyway?
your reply to me telling a poster to google for a list of life threatening issues for a late term abortion. do you just skim over the posts that have listed the numerous medical reasons for late term that have been posted before? or are you putting your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand because you just don't wanna know. yeah I could list them but then why would I if you and other anti choicers will ignore them anyway?
you wanna play double dog dare me because you are just too lazy and uninterested to do your own research? google it if you really want to know or re read some of the abortion threads the info is there if you want to believe it or not
If the father had beat her and killed the fetus we would have demanded charges. This entire argument boils down to equality does it not?
Comparison fail.
The man is not under the influence of hormones. The woman is. Why are you conservatives so unable to admit that pregnancy is difficult and hard on a woman? When it comes to pregnancy men and women aren't equal. Women bear the burden. Men do not.
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you wanna play double dog dare me because you are just too lazy and uninterested to do your own research? google it if you really want to know or re read some of the abortion threads the info is there if you want to believe it or not