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Old 09-07-2012, 11:45 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
8,151 posts, read 5,584,479 times
Reputation: 1752

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyanger View Post
The following is purely anecdotal:
I know of one small business owner that has voiced concern about hiring minorities because of concerns that it becomes more complicated to administer discipline, provide constructive criticism/feedback, terminate employment (should that ever become necessary), and basically just run the business. Specifically the fear is that 'the race card' is too loosely played these days and the risk of getting sucked into a PR nightmare (if the business is ever accused of firing/disciplining a minority employee because of race) is real. The person saying this stated that they had seen this happen before - but that is just hearsay. I only bring it up as one possible reason for the phenomenon you refer to.

For what it's worth, this business owner does in fact employ minorities - I guess it is just one of many considerations on the table when it comes to hiring.

(finally, this is not one of those "a friend of mine ..." stories where it's actually me I'm talking about - it is really another person that I know)
Its easy to avoid that if you don't have "special discipline" for minority employees. Treat them the same and you have no problems. The problem is that doesn't happen. The minority employees are punished severely while the white employees get the "easy treatment". I see it all the time and if you ask others I'm sure they do too.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,694 posts, read 15,565,676 times
Reputation: 9519
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbabeechick View Post
Ironic, these are the same sorts of people who say that others are trying to squash their opinions by bringing race into a discussion. You don't end a discussion by saying someone is "pulling the race card" either.

Started this thread because I pointed out that in the service industry in Manhattan there tends to be a lot of look-ism and the less diverse a staff is, the more money there is to be made in that bar/restaurant/lounge/nightclub. That's just a fact. The only place I know that has a majority minority waitstaff in Manhattan is TGI Friday's, and everyone knows no one makes any money there. Also if you are black and have natural hair, you can kiss a lot of opportunity to make money in the industry goodbye.

Saying race has something to do with anything isn't "pulling the race card". I know that's how ignorant people like to squash discussion about truths that make them uncomfortable but try harder.

Of course there are people who seem to think race is a factor in everything, but just by looking at the internet the biggest abuse of the "race card" is simply overuse of the expression.
Your entire opening post is about being tired of people pulling the race card, then what do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbabeechick View Post
It's about the discrimination in hiring practices. Many girls with natural hair would make great tips, if they had the opportunity to get hired at places they'd make money.
You tell me I need to learn how to read, and then you do what????? You pull the race card.

What kind of discrimination is it?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,386,874 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by enemy country View Post
Its easy to avoid that if you don't have "special discipline" for minority employees. Treat them the same and you have no problems. The problem is that doesn't happen. The minority employees are punished severely while the white employees get the "easy treatment". I see it all the time and if you ask others I'm sure they do too.
That depends where you work I am sure. Where I work there is a lower standard for women and minorities when it comes to mechanical ability.
There is a lower standard when it comes to reliablity as well. The special disipline you talk about?
WE call none-productive behavior. Swearing, dirty jokes, sexiest remarks etc.
Women can say something like he thinks with the wrong head. No problem
If a man makes an equally sexiest remark sent home for 3 days no pay.
Black person uses the N word. Ssshhhhh you didnt hear that.
White person uses same word same context. Fired.
You are correct some places do have special disipline for some but not all. It is often PC driven.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,920,434 times
Reputation: 22369
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbabeechick View Post
Since you have 20 years in marketing and advertising maybe you can explain to me in detail why a predominantly white clientele would have a problem seeing a couple of minority waitresses in the places they frequent? Cause I don't get it.

I'm the only minority waitress at both of my bars yet no patrons have run out screaming yet. Maybe there is something I'm missing.

You cannot tell me that Irish bar owner cannot satisfy the needs his clientele by hiring people other than off the boat Irish or Eastern Europeans to serve them. Doesn't pass the smell test sorry.
Well of course it doesn't pass the smell test when you are the one doing the sniffing! You have made up your mind that everyone is a racist!

I cannot give you insight into every person's mind out there hiring wait staff. I told you that people tend to pick images to represent their business - which reflect the demographics of their clientele.

I would think that would translate into how they select their wait staff but who the hell knows?

Your theory is that every white person out there is a racist b/c they don't have a lot of people of color on their staff.

I have noticed that farm workers are hardly ever black. I have also noticed that there is rarely anyone of color selling goods at the local farmer's market. I have also noticed that no one in the Tractor Store where I go pick up goods is black. Never have I seen a black person picking up straw or rubber boots or chicken wire.

Now what should my analysis of that be? Could it possibly be - black folks don't like farming? No, it must be - white folks won't hire black folks to work on their farms.

Maybe the reason you don't see many people of color in these settings is b/c they don't apply for the jobs at the same rate white people do.

WHO KNOWS?

BUt I guess it is more comfy to just assume it has to be a race issue.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,561,957 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Fallacy? So every claim of racism is 100% legitimate?

No one ever makes politically motivated claims of racism? No one flies off the handle in an argument and claims the person disagreeing with them is racist for doing so?
I don't understand where your questions are coming from. Are you suggesting that people do not make racist claims/statements/premises? Actually, there are quite a few racist statements made on this forum daily. Perhaps the ones I see the most is that black people are somehow impure, violent, and the real racists, whereas, so it has been stated over and over on this forum that white people are pure, peaceful, and racially tolerant.

The point I was trying to make is that the "race-card" counterargument is really no argument at all. Rather, it represents peoples unwillingness, for the most part, to acknowledge the role of race ideology in American history, society, culture.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: USA
19,620 posts, read 14,557,733 times
Reputation: 12685
Quote:
Originally Posted by enemy country View Post
People use the "dont pull the race card" because they wish to continue with the practice of racism.
"they wish to continue with the practice of racism."
Overall, they are in denial or they just don't know because they do not share the experience. Walk a mile in another mans shoes' is more easily said than done.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Astoria, NY
3,053 posts, read 3,571,995 times
Reputation: 2475
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
Your entire opening post is about being tired of people pulling the race card, then what do you do?



You tell me I need to learn how to read, and then you do what????? You pull the race card.

What kind of discrimination is it?
Are you mentally handicapped? Serious question. This post about being tired of people using that expression to dismiss any discussions about race.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:24 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,920,434 times
Reputation: 22369
Quote:
Originally Posted by budgetlord View Post
You've been in the business for 20 years. What year did this start to change? Just curious.
I have been in the marketing and advertising business since 1989. Prior to that, I was a newspaper editor.

So . . . prior to 89 - the images were all story related and you captured who was involved at that event - no control of who appeared in those images.

In 1989, my agency was primarily involved with healthcare, and one of the first things we discussed with all our clients was cultural sensitivity and making sure we reflected the face of the community, which at that time was mostly caucasian and african american, with about 7% Asian and a tiny % hispanic.

Since that time, we have become much more sensitive to including hispanic images, viewpoints, etc - as well as literature in both English and Spanish.

So the answer is - by 1989, industry standards were to reflect the face of your community. However, I knew that the industry was starting to embrace a dedication to that standard earlier in the 80s.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Astoria, NY
3,053 posts, read 3,571,995 times
Reputation: 2475
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post

I cannot give you insight into every person's mind out there hiring wait staff. I told you that people tend to pick images to represent their business - which reflect the demographics of their clientele.

I would think that would translate into how they select their wait staff but who the hell knows?

Your theory is that every white person out there is a racist b/c they don't have a lot of people of color on their staff.
I can't really get what's going on here. Maybe it's a selective attention issue.

The clientele of just about everywhere in Manhattan is going to be majority white. Even though Manhattan is diverse, most of the people going out will be of European extraction. So it would make sense (in part) for the staff to be majority white (though if you parse it, not really, because the server pool should be more diverse than the people with money to go out), but that's not the issue. This isn't a question of proportionate representation throughout the industry, it's a question of why it seems that places where servers make money in the city are nearly entirely white and places where they cannot are diverse. I'm just asking to you to explain why a business owner would choose only hire Irish and Eastern European waitresses, because you're the one who told me that you had all this business/marketing acumen and now you're telling me who the hell knows. The majority of the clientele by Penn aren't Irish or Eastern European so you tell me what you think is going on. Simple phenomena have simple explanations.

You're expecting me to believe that the fact that there's a correlation between the amount of money that a waitstaff makes and the diversity (or lack thereof) of said staff is a coincidence? I thought you were the one with the answers. Anything to keep the blinders on. That type of obfuscation just convinces minorities that there is a race issue in this country. Yep, you're part of the reason why the "race card" is pulled, irony of all ironies. Why refuse to acknowledge the blantantly obvious.

Like I said, ascribing everything to race and refusing to ascribe anything to race are equidistant ends on the retard scale.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:33 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,694 posts, read 15,565,676 times
Reputation: 9519
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbabeechick View Post
Are you mentally handicapped? Serious question. This post about being tired of people using that expression to dismiss any discussions about race.
You keep changing the subject to avoid dealing with your double-speak.

You said first in your opening post that black waitresses with natural hair don't receive good tips.

I commented on that. I said it was likely because of bad service they don't receive decent tips.

Next. You comment on my reading skills and say I'm missing the point. That it's about discrimination in hiring practices.

I commented on that. I said you are doing the opposite of what your O.P. discusses, you are pulling the race card.

Next. You say that it's about discrimination, and again comment that I need to learn how to read. In this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbabeechick View Post
You need to go back to school for people who cannot read too good.

This thread is not about tipping. At all. If you had actually read this thread this is about the gazillionth time it's been reiterated. I have zero problem making 18-20% of my sales. At my job they record the percentages you make.

It's about the discrimination in hiring practices. Many girls with natural hair would make great tips, if they had the opportunity to get hired at places they'd make money.
You finish up with this deliberately insulting post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbabeechick View Post
Are you mentally handicapped? Serious question. This post about being tired of people using that expression to dismiss any discussions about race.
And you return to your O.P. and attempt to say your post is about people using "the race card" as a way to dismiss discussions about race.

WHEN YOU ALREADY SAID IN YOUR OP YOU WEREN'T GOING TO DISCUSS RACE.

I want to know what's it going to be now?

You are confused, you scapegoat race and "natural hair" as a way to quantify why blacks are being discriminated against in hiring in Manhattan restaurants, when you can't prove that anybody is being discriminated against at all.

I can say the sky is pink, but in order to make it the truth I'd have to prove it.

So prove your point, otherwise you don't have one.
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