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Old 09-07-2012, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,320 posts, read 11,470,760 times
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[quote=sickofnyc;25998967]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
If you want to say that life begins at conception, then why are the legal repercussions of such a distinction solely to be restricted to abortion rights? Clearly, that human life that you have now defined is deserving of other protections as well, right?
Straight from the science dictionary---life begins at conception. How we wish to deal with that fact is debateable, the fact life begins at conception is not. Life does not have to be protected at all stages. Life has begun at conception since before modern man, nothing has changed biologically speaking.

(In these debates I using the common practice in abortion debates of using life to represemt an individual human life.)
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,728,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
I think that people who support abortion should kill their babies and people that don't shouldn't.

(That's one way to get rid of Democrats.)
You're saying that no republican ever had an abortion?
And that you're sure that people's kids will be a particular political party?

Carnac!
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:39 AM
 
Location: Ohio
15,034 posts, read 13,313,399 times
Reputation: 20482
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
You have got to be kidding. Guess you never lost a loved one. But many funerals do celebrate people's lives and you will go to many that speak about the person and how they made their lives so happy etc. If one is a Christian we do celebrate the fact that the person is probably going to be with the Lord. Still does not make it any easier to lose a loved one.

Yes, I have lost loved ones.

I do not believe in heaven or hell, so I grieve because they are gone forever and I will miss them.

I would not grieve for a clump of cells that was never a person, never someone who I knew or loved, never sentient.

IF I believed in heaven and hell, and I was aborted, I would view that as a blessing. Since I never had a chance to sin.......I would never have a chance of ending up in hell.

I would be one of the lucky ones...... I would get to skip all of the struggles here on earth.....and go straight to heaven.....into the arms of my loving "God"......and eternal bliss.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,736,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post

Straight from the science dictionary---life begins at conception.
The dictionary that you quoted stated that the life cycle begins at conception. Not life.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,396 posts, read 4,387,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
Many of the anti-choice crowd believe that life begins at conception and not at birth. Let's say we take this premise as true - which brings up a few questions for me.

Does that mean that the child acquires citizenship at conception? After all, if life begins at conception rather than birth, shouldn't the "child" then be bestowed with all the normal rights that we currently bestow at birth?

Is citizenship bestowed based on the place of conception? Currently, some nations grant citizenship based on the location of the birth. If you are born in the US, then you are a US citizen. Since life now beings at conception, is citizenship a matter of the place of conception? Take my own daughter: I am a EU citizen, my wife is a US citizen, my daughter was born in Costa Rica. Consequently, my daughter has three citizenships (and passports): EU, US, and Costa Rican. However, she was conceived in Nicaragua - does that mean that she would also be entitled to a Nicaraguan passport?

If so, how do you prove that she was actually conceived in Nicaragua?

After the birth of a child, I can apply for a passport for the kid. In order to do so, I submit a passport photo - which is kind of pointless because the passport is valid for a number of years and frankly, by the time my kid is three years old, she doesn't look anything like she did at the age of three months. Alas, passports, by law, need to have a photo in them.

When I now apply for a passport for my unborn child, is is sufficient (or necessary) to submit a picture of the ultrasound?
Biblically, this is inaccurate.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,588 posts, read 10,710,561 times
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If it is dead...it is not alive...If it is alive- it is not dead. There is nothing wrong with admitting life begins at conception and before..That an egg in the female is alive...that sperm that move and travel with a purpose are alive..Why don't pro-choice people finally admit this...WE kill animals to eat...we kill living plants to survive...we kill our enemy if our lives are threatened..we as a species kill- just like all other living things...KILL...in order to survive..

As a pro-lifer...I am not angry or upset with those who are pro-choice...if they feel they have to kill a potential offspring to survive then I support that choice. IF you kill your potential offspring for any other reason other than personal survival..Then...it is a useless killing..and not relevant in the scheme of things.

The issue of a "blob of cells" not being living material should be dropped and forgotten..It is alive..to say it is dead is absurd.


Killing things for the sake of human survival is legitimate...Killing your own genetic future because you find it potentially inconvenient or embarrassing lacks real purpose.


My only experience with abortion came just before my last son was born...My wife aborted a child....Not because it was a needed thing to ensure her health and survival- but because she had an affair...and if she allowed the child to be born..She would have lost credibility..and status...that she would have been proven to be a liar...


I would have excepted the child no matter what...All of my kids were blonde...The aborted child would have had dark hair...so there would be no hiding the foolish indiscretion.


I wonder how many woman who make a mistake through a quick affair abort the child?



Men must give support to their female partners no matter what...The primary males duty is to protect the female when she is in the weakened state called pregnancy.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:48 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,513,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
Many of the anti-choice crowd believe that life begins at conception and not at birth.
When I was in 7th grade biology, it was clearly taught that at the very instant of conception, everything about this new person was determined. Everything. That means from hair color and eye color, to body type and talent.

If life didn't begin till birth (absolutely ridiculous notion), what was the state prior to birth? If the fetus wasn't alive how could it develop? It has a heart beat from a very early time in it's growth. Explain please.

Except for nutrition and oxygen, the growing baby is independent from it's mother, has it's own blood, which is likely of a different type than it's mother, and it's own DNA. The fetus is "separate flesh", it is not "part of a woman's body."

The fetus moves, kicks, sucks it's thumb etc. Video has revealed that it struggles in an effort to protect itself during abortion. This is one of the hard truths that "pro-aborts" don't want to deal with. One of the reasons they do not want to view ultrasounds is because it reveals the reality that it is a baby that they are about to kill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
Let's say we take this premise as true - which brings up a few questions for me.

Does that mean that the child acquires citizenship at conception? After all, if life begins at conception rather than birth, shouldn't the "child" then be bestowed with all the normal rights that we currently bestow at birth?

Is citizenship bestowed based on the place of conception? Currently, some nations grant citizenship based on the location of the birth. If you are born in the US, then you are a US citizen. Since life now beings at conception, is citizenship a matter of the place of conception? Take my own daughter: I am a EU citizen, my wife is a US citizen, my daughter was born in Costa Rica. Consequently, my daughter has three citizenships (and passports): EU, US, and Costa Rican. However, she was conceived in Nicaragua - does that mean that she would also be entitled to a Nicaraguan passport?

If so, how do you prove that she was actually conceived in Nicaragua?
Our laws tie citizenship to birthplace. This isn't an argument. Nice try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post

After the birth of a child, I can apply for a passport for the kid. In order to do so, I submit a passport photo - which is kind of pointless because the passport is valid for a number of years and frankly, by the time my kid is three years old, she doesn't look anything like she did at the age of three months. Alas, passports, by law, need to have a photo in them.
So, get a new passport photo. Is that hard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post

When I now apply for a passport for my unborn child, is is sufficient (or necessary) to submit a picture of the ultrasound?
Let's be ridiculous, shall we? Since when does a pregnant woman need a passport for the child she is carrying?

Dang! Some people must have way too much time on their hands. This has to be one of the stupidest threads ever!
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:28 AM
 
9,464 posts, read 4,826,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
The dictionary that you quoted stated that the life cycle begins at conception. Not life.
You're another one who should spend some time a book store, at a university if possible, and skim some books about genetics, biology, embryology, zoology. Most, if not all, will state that life begins at fertilization. Forget, god, soul, morality, politics, slogans [her body, her choice]. Look at the science.

There was a time when pro-choice advocates, even planned parenthood, acknowledged that life begins at conception.

"Science" isn't the final word in social policy or legal rights. However, for purposes of promoting abortion as a choice, it's better to convince people they're killing a parasite or clump of meaningless cells rather than a life.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:34 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,162,436 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Here's another logical/intellectual pitfall for this claim...

If you insist on life beginning at conception, then your all-knowing, all-powerful diety is the world's leading abortionist.

By far...

It is estimated that up to half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among those women who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is about 15-20%. Most miscarriages occur during the first 7 weeks of pregnancy.

Miscarriage: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


.
Will the 'pro-lifers' picket Churches with placards saying "God why are you murdering innocent babies?" and show pictures of miscarried fetuses?
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:38 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,513,141 times
Reputation: 8847
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
Agreed. Too many zygotes do not even make it into the third week, much less the second trimester, if anyone believes life starts at conception, then purgatory is filled with billions upon billions of souls that never made it past the first few weeks of pregnancy. How could a just and compassionate God mean for that to happen?
Ignorance leads to some very stupid questions and comments. But since you brought religion into it ...

There is no support anywhere in the Bible for the Catholic teaching of a place called "purgatory."

When you die, if you are saved, you go to be with the Lord. That is what the Bible teaches.

If we believe that God created us all, then surely he created us from the moment of conception, when the "blueprint" of our entire being was established. Consider these verses:

Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."

Psalm 139:13 "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb."

What God created, he also foreknew. Therefore, suffice it to say the unborn or never born remain with him. I think we have this assurance from His word.
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