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Old 09-07-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,757,511 times
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And a beautiful butterfly

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Old 09-07-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,757,511 times
Reputation: 6633
A delicious apple

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Old 09-07-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,757,511 times
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And a rotting corpse...ewww


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Old 09-07-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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What a beautiful baby

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Old 09-07-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,395 posts, read 11,532,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
So, what's the point of arguing that our laws need to recognize that life begins at conception if there are NO legal repercussions? We currently hold that life begins at birth and have granted certain possibilities based on this perspective. Nothing needs to change, then.
No, we don't hold that life begins at birth. There are no legal repurcussions. For certain life forms life began at conception approximately 1.2 billion years ago. Human life has begun at conception since the conception of the first human, no religious belief or political ideology changes basic biology any more than drawing imaginary lines on a map, to indicate states or nations, changes the terrain of the land.

We have decided human life can be killed, pretty much without restrictions, before the final trimester.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,395 posts, read 11,532,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
If life begins at conception, does that mean that people who are over the age of 20 years and 3 months (according to their actual birth date) can legally drink?
No because the law requires you to reach your 21st birthday. Do you know the definition of birth?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 2,592,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post

We have decided human life can be killed, pretty much without restrictions, before the final trimester.
Correct.

Alas, as you noted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
We have decided to grant certain restrictions on being killed at viability. We have decided to grant citizenship rights at birth. We have decided to grant the right to vote at 18 years past birth, to drink at 21 years past birth.
In other words, our laws are what they are and that's just it. We have decided that abortions are acceptable under certain circumstances. We have also decided that the standard we apply to those circumstances are graded - they are generally not all or nothing, depending on the stage of gestation.

If life begins at conception, then our laws are already based upon that perspective since, as you noted, it has been like that for a rather long, long time.

Thus, changing our current laws to formally recognize that stance also means that we have to adjust ALL of our other laws to deal with such a change. We need to re-regulate anything from inheritance to child abuse (smoking while pregnant, anyone?). If we don't need to re-evaluate any of these laws and just leave them the way they are, then what is the point of legally recognizing life at conception as a principle?

If there are no legal repercussions AT ALL following such recognition, then it follows logically that there should be no shift in abortion laws, either. Or is there any reason why the legal recognition of life at conception should only affect one area of law but no others - other than legislating religious ideology onto others?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,293 posts, read 12,757,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
No because the law requires you to reach your 21st birthday. Do you know the definition of birth?
I'm not sure if that is true

23 USC § 158 - National minimum drinking age | LII / Legal Information Institute
Quote:
makes unlawful the purchase and public possession in such State of any alcoholic beverage by a person who is less than 21 years of age
Is there a legal definition of age?

Most definitions are something along the lines of
Quote:
The length of time that a person has lived or a thing has existed
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 2,592,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
I'm not sure if that is true

23 USC § 158 - National minimum drinking age | LII / Legal Information Institute


Is there a legal definition of age?

Most definitions are something along the lines of
Our day-to-day language shows clearly when we believe life begins:

If my wife is pregnant and due tomorrow, I'll happily tell me friends that I will be a father.

Ask me tomorrow (after she has given birth) and I'll happily tell them that I am a father.

If, for some reason, my child is not born tomorrow, I'll continue to say that I will be a father...

In other words, life begins at birth and not before.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,395 posts, read 11,532,797 times
Reputation: 9011
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos View Post
Correct.

Alas, as you noted:



In other words, our laws are what they are and that's just it. We have decided that abortions are acceptable under certain circumstances. We have also decided that the standard we apply to those circumstances are graded - they are generally not all or nothing, depending on the stage of gestation.

If life begins at conception, then our laws are already based upon that perspective since, as you noted, it has been like that for a rather long, long time.

Thus, changing our current laws to formally recognize that stance also means that we have to adjust ALL of our other laws to deal with such a change. We need to re-regulate anything from inheritance to child abuse (smoking while pregnant, anyone?). If we don't need to re-evaluate any of these laws and just leave them the way they are, then what is the point of legally recognizing life at conception as a principle?

If there are no legal repercussions AT ALL following such recognition, then it follows logically that there should be no shift in abortion laws, either. Or is there any reason why the legal recognition of life at conception should only affect one area of law but no others - other than legislating religious ideology onto others?
I agree.

The fact is I am old enough to have had biology before Roe v. Wade or global warming were issues. Life beginning at conception and CO2 being a greenhouse gas were not something to argue over, they were facts. The fact that abortion and global warming are now political issues does not change the facts of biology and chemistry, to argue differently is absurd.

Abortion needs to be more frequent. Legalized abortion is a major contributing factor in reducing crime and welfare. Abortion needs to be safe, legal and common. Keep killing present and future parasites.

Eliminate welfare and offer free abortions and our country will be going in the right direction. If you can't afford to raise children kill the developing human life in the womb.
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