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Old 09-08-2012, 07:14 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,806,871 times
Reputation: 12828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
But how far are you willing to take that logic? If someone is raped or abused in their own home by their spouse or family member, should they have not been in their house, or not slept with their spouse whom they trusted for a long time? And believe me, that kind of thing happens just as often, if not more often, than sexual assaults in bars and public areas. Why are we not holding the perpetrator responsible? We should be telling the people who commit violence to stop doing what they're doing. People should take action to reduce risk but no one should feel completely controlled by what could happen to them when because of what someone else could do. We're all responsible for our own actions, and that includes people who commit violence of any kind, including sexual violence. They should be held responsible for their actions, not the victims. Everyone should try to reduce risk, but no one is responsible or guilty for another person's actions.

In short, stop telling survivors what to do, what to wear, how to act, where to be, and start telling abusers and rapists to stop abusing and raping.
The better approach is for parents to teach their daughters what a healthy relationship looks like and how to avoid ever becoming involved with abusers/predators. The signs/symptoms of abusers are easily recognizable early on if women are educated enough before they start dating in their youth, to recognize them.

Telling people who commit violence to stop? Don't we already have laws against violent crimes?

1) Teach young women to recognize and avoid predators

2) Teach young women how to use lethal force to defend themselves.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:15 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,423,757 times
Reputation: 12595
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Stupid hurts, sometimes it kills. You and other women have the right to exercise your stupidity. Doing so just because you have a basic human right to display stupidity will not make you safe.

The best way to stay out of trouble is not to go to places where trouble is most likely to occur.
DUH!
By that logic, I shouldn't have lived in a house or gone to school cause that's where I was raped and abused for years. Never been sexually assaulted or the victim of any other kind of violence outside of of those two places, and I have gone to bars, walked home alone at night in dangerous neighborhoods, etc. blind.

Most abuse happens in places the victim knows, by people the victim knows and has been taught to trust.

It's not about where you were, what you wearing, what you said, what you didn't say, etc. It's about the fact that people who commit violence of any kind are responsible for their actions, and are in the wrong for committing violence.

When are we going to start holding THE PERPETRATORS responsible for THEIR actions???
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:22 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,423,757 times
Reputation: 12595
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The better approach is for parents to teach their daughters what a healthy relationship looks like and how to avoid ever becoming involved with abusers/predators. The signs/symptoms of abusers are easily recognizable early on if women are educated enough before they start dating in their youth, to recognize them.

Telling people who commit violence to stop? Don't we already have laws against violent crimes?

1) Teach young women to recognize and avoid predators

2) Teach young women how to use lethal force to defend themselves.
I agree that what you said is true, and shouldn't just be restricted to young women, because men can and are abused as well and need to know what steps to take to try to reduce their risk of entering an abusive relationship.

That said, perpetrators know how to put on up a facade for long enough to gain people's trust before they start abusing.

Children often do not have the say or power to take control over their lives, and often people who commit violence against children use powerful threats and blackmailing in order to gain power over the child.

Adults who have a history of abuse often still act like the child they were who had no power and don't realize they have more control over their lives as adults. Sometimes they still have relatively little control over their lives because of the financial or social power their abuser holds over them.

I'm all for what you are saying to empower survivors, but the people who abuse are also responsible and should be expected to examine themselves as well, and in that case many people constantly leave out what the abuser can do.

Many abusers pick and choose when to abuse, abusing in private and not public, cutting their victim down emotionally in certain settings but acting nice and polite in order to avert the attention of others in other setings, even during the abuse hitting in certain places that won't show, or raping their victim in a way that won't leave any evidence beyond what normal sex would leave, etc. There is plenty of evidence already that abusers have control over their actions, so they are capable of controlling their actions to a point that they do not commit violence of any kind (including sexual violence).
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:29 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,806,871 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
By that logic, I shouldn't have lived in a house or gone to school cause that's where I was raped and abused for years. Never been sexually assaulted or the victim of any other kind of violence outside of of those two places, and I have gone to bars, walked home alone at night in dangerous neighborhoods, etc. blind.

Most abuse happens in places the victim knows, by people the victim knows and has been taught to trust.

It's not about where you were, what you wearing, what you said, what you didn't say, etc. It's about the fact that people who commit violence of any kind are responsible for their actions, and are in the wrong for committing violence.

When are we going to start holding THE PERPETRATORS responsible for THEIR actions???
We have laws, we have a criminal justice system (not a victim justice system). Your claim that perpatrators are not held responsible is incorrect. What the ratio is of those convicted vs. those who are not I don't have. Do you have those numbers to back up your claim?

Many women enable their abusers/attackers. Many women are irresponsible in allowing themselves to become intoxicated in public and are unable to discern when they are being stalked until it is too late.
Outside of the home situational awareness is of the utmost importance. Once cannot judge their surroundings or read the clues of potential predators if under the influence. It takes a clear mind to avoid danger.

Inside the home women tend to enable their abusers not only by entering the abusive relationships to begin with but to stay in the abusive situations instead of extricating themselves at the first signs of abuse.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:36 AM
 
18,936 posts, read 11,535,708 times
Reputation: 69883
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The better approach is for parents to teach their daughters what a healthy relationship looks like and how to avoid ever becoming involved with abusers/predators. The signs/symptoms of abusers are easily recognizable early on if women are educated enough before they start dating in their youth, to recognize them.

Telling people who commit violence to stop? Don't we already have laws against violent crimes?

1) Teach young women to recognize and avoid predators

2) Teach young women how to use lethal force to defend themselves.
A healthy relationship with a stranger who creeps up behind you in a public place? The woman from the OP story wasn't in a relationship with her attacker - she was a random target. Considering the bold move and sense of entitlement/power displayed, it might just as easily have happened in a grocery store aisle. Just how far are women supposed to cloister themselves in order to avoid sociopathic behavior?
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,383,690 times
Reputation: 4190
We can't blame her for what happened to her because it's never justified.

On the other hand, if I walk through a bad part of Oakland or Richmond in a shiny new Rolex at midnight and get whacked by some gang thugs, nobody would be surprised. You can't put yourself in a bad environment and then act surprised what happens.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix, AZ USA
17,914 posts, read 43,237,795 times
Reputation: 10719
Just to add to the facts, the judge issued an apology yesterday.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-comments.html
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,159,086 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
True to the bolded part ........but........I am a man and there are parts of Houston that I wont go into at night and lock my doors and have my gun close by when I have to pass thru during daylight...


A woman should always go bar hopping with friends and never alone, to go alone is just plain stupid on her part...
You seem to be a man and fear certain parts of town which is pretty smart, IMO. When women have all the rights they seem to think they have they don't feel like you do and know that if they go bar hopping alone they are protected by the courts, or something. Actually this woman failed to realize that the deed has to be done before the courts can protect her. I am sure that she didn't think she was maybe "showing off her wares" to some weirdo.

There must be something in the air that left leaners breathe when they get wound out on the rights of people being so protective for them. Keep that iron handy in those parts of Houston and maybe you will never have to rely on a court for protection after the deed is done to you.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:58 AM
 
1,119 posts, read 1,366,984 times
Reputation: 652
I go to bars/restaurants alone to have one drink with dinner ALL THE TIME. Does that mean any man has the right to touch me???????????????????

Wow blaming the victim , what a dangerous mentality
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,775,072 times
Reputation: 9399
Who ever said that judges and cops are all honorable...some are pigs...I watched a male judge clearly getting aroused when a witness was describing a sexual assault...I could swear if he could he would have been masturbating under his robes...The judge in question here should have at least expressed her regret and shame -that one of her own - one in a position of power and authority...had behaved poorly...Instead of brow beating the victim- This is a kind of sick elitism on the part of the judge...and abuse of power.

Here is a good example of someone in authority abusing someone...A few months ago I met my landlord in the usual spot - a cafe`...where I would hand over rent...Other tenants would show up...There was this woman...supposedly an out of work stripper...who was behind in her rent...The landlord started messaging her neck and touching her bare back...I said to the guy..."Don't touch her- why are you touching her"- The poor woman just sat there because she was poor and vulnerable- allowing this old jerk to maul her...It was nasty...This landlord would never have dared touch this woman if she were a woman of wealth.
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