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Old 09-08-2012, 10:13 PM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,354,108 times
Reputation: 4113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
So because someone went to PP and said a prayer for the women and unborn you decided to donate money to help them kill more babies, well good for you Your a Hero.
Don't kid yourself. What she and her group of 30 to 40 religious zealots were doing is preying, not praying.

If they truly wanted to just pray, they could do that at home or in their church.

Forcing women and girls to walk that path to the front door between 30 to 40 standing or kneeling 'preying' people, some of whom were 'asking' these women about their private health matters, others who are staring at them trying to make eye contact, is harassment and intimidation plain and simple.



Planned Parenthood clinic in Washington.

 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 3,000,015 times
Reputation: 1929
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
I have a question, and I would really like an actual answer; When did praying for people (publicly or privately) because harassment? Or the equivalent of flipping someone off?
You mean legally - it doesn't unless you trespass.

Perceptually:
The minute the targets of your action feel like they need escorts/body-guards.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,321,678 times
Reputation: 12713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
Don't kid yourself. What she and her group of 30 to 40 religious zealots were doing is preying, not praying.

If they truly wanted to just pray, they could do that at home or in their church.

Forcing women and girls to walk that path to the front door between 30 to 40 standing or kneeling 'preying' people, some of whom were 'asking' these women about their private health matters, others who are staring at them trying to make eye contact, is harassment and intimidation plain and simple.



Planned Parenthood clinic in Washington.
Then blame PP for allowing them and escorting them onto their property to pray for the women and unborn children. You do understand they were not praying for any harm to come to anybody right? it was a lawful gathering do you wish to take away their right to a lawful gathering?
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:26 PM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,658,614 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
30-40 were PRAYING!
None, unless rosaries are considered propaganda, which I'm sure to you and people like you, they are.
2
None.

READ THE LAST PART OF THE OP! That's pretty much the point of the thread, "faith without works is dead" an' all that.


I have a question, and I would really like an actual answer; When did praying for people (publicly or privately) because harassment? Or the equivalent of flipping someone off?
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."

Matthew 6:5.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:27 PM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,354,108 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
30-40 were PRAYING!
None, unless rosaries are considered propaganda, which I'm sure to you and people like you, they are.
2
None.

READ THE LAST PART OF THE OP! That's pretty much the point of the thread, "faith without works is dead" an' all that.


I have a question, and I would really like an actual answer; When did praying for people (publicly or privately) because harassment? Or the equivalent of flipping someone off?
You are deluding yourself if you think all you and your group were doing was just 'praying'.

Why were you all in front of the clinic instead of at your church or at home? Why were you trying to make eye-contact by staring at each of these women. Why were your 'counsellors' trying to talk with these women?

Was there any way that the women and girls walking up that path to the front door could avoid your group of 30 to 40 people standing or kneeling on the grassed areas in front of the clinic?




Could they avoid the 'counsellors' trying to 'talk' to them and ask them if they were having an abortion even if they weren't even there for one?

Looks like a fairly small area for 30 to 40 people.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,047 posts, read 19,035,433 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
So this past weekend I went to Christendom College | About for a visit. Every saturday they do something called the Sheild of Roses. We went to this Planned Parenthood Sexual & Reproductive Health Services in Washington - Downtown Center - Planned Parenthood and stood/kneeled in the garden right in front and said 4 rosaries, a litany, and a novena (for those of you how don't know they are prayers and all said together take about 1hr-1hr 1/2)

There were about 30-40 of us all together. At this PP there are "pro-choice escorts" (they actually where shirts that say this) and some of them were nice and some of them tried to intimidate us. As we were praying a nice jogger lady flipped us off, a young black man yelled some obscene things to us, people pointed and people laughed.

Some other people came and said the rosary on the sidewalk. There was a protestant man and a catholic man that stood out on the sidewalk begging women not to have the abortions and trying to tell them about the places they could go for help.

A man that worked in the PP came out and walked to his car for a cig, as he was walking he knocked the fliers out of the protestant hands and onto the ground and laughed, as he walked back he paused to cuss the man out and shove him around.

I counted 9 individual women and 3 groups of women that went in that day. Every time one would walk by I swallowed tears and bile and looked each woman in the eye, silently pleading for her to stop what she was doing. One woman as she walked by spat on us and 3 others called us names, giving the "escorts" a little chuckle.

When we were done and walked back we all shook hands with the "escorts", the nice ones and the creepy/rude one and wished them all a wonderful day. Once we got back to the car I couldn't stop myself anymore I cried for a long time and couldn't eat for hours (I have a verrrrryyyyyy strong stomach)

There are a few points to me telling you all this:
1) Liberals/pro-choice people who spout tolerance, learn some.
2) When you see people praying, whether you are Atheist, Christian, Conservative or Liberal, show some respect and don't be rude.
3) People who are pro-life: I talk about this issue a lot and i have always been very pro-life but after this experience I realize that you have to do more than just talk about it, you have to try to help people.

Thanks for reading.
There is a huge difference in praying "with" somebody and "at" somebody. Nobody loves a Pharisee.

How would you react if you were accosted outside a BBQ restaurant by 30-40 people begging you not to spend the money on a meal, but to send it to charity because people are starving, or warning you that pork comes from an "unclean animal" and offering to pray that you will see things their way? Same thing. There are literally millions of children who are hungry through no fault of their own, and a lot of religions don't eat pork (including Christians, if you read the OT). I'm certain you would tell the manager so that he could call the police to remove the proselytizers, and he would be well within his legal rights to do so, since they are interfering with a legal business.

The women who went to PP may have been there for a number of reasons, ALL of which are, quite frankly, none of anyone's business but the client and her counselor. Regardless of your beliefs, you have no right to impose them on anyone else. THAT is the meaning of "separation of church and State".

If you posted asking for advice, I would tell you to focus on assisting the already viable humans who are poor, sick, homeless, and hungry and to spend your time, effort, and wealth trying to lift them out of their situations and help them improve their lot in life instead of meddling in affairs where you don't belong. A few hours spent volunteering at a local food bank or homeless shelter is a lot better use of time than "feel good" prayers where they are not wanted, and I am reasonably certain Jesus would agree since that is the way He spent His time.

Last edited by cuebald; 09-08-2012 at 11:04 PM..
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:42 PM
 
35,095 posts, read 51,103,864 times
Reputation: 62664
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
30-40 were PRAYING!
None, unless rosaries are considered propaganda, which I'm sure to you and people like you, they are.
2
None.

READ THE LAST PART OF THE OP! That's pretty much the point of the thread, "faith without works is dead" an' all that.


I have a question, and I would really like an actual answer; When did praying for people (publicly or privately) because harassment? Or the equivalent of flipping someone off?


The moment you and your group decided to pray in front of a planned parenthood is the moment prayer in public became harassment. That was right after the moment you and your group decided to try and force your opinions and beliefs on others.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:46 PM
 
676 posts, read 1,258,865 times
Reputation: 1160
And I'm sure you'll have no objection if a group of birth control advocates show up on the sidewalk of your church Sunday and hand out the over the counter birth control options. Hey, they're just expressing themselves in a public place, right?
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:00 PM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,354,108 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
Then blame PP for allowing them and escorting them onto their property to pray for the women and unborn children. You do understand they were not praying for any harm to come to anybody right? it was a lawful gathering do you wish to take away their right to a lawful gathering?
PP were not 'allowing or escorting' the protestors onto their property. The escorts were there to protect the clients from the protestors. The small grassed area right outside the front door of that clinic is public property, so legally these protestors were allowed to be there.

Their very presence is designed to intimidate and harass women by forcing any women to walk through their groups to get to the front door.

Even though they are legally protected under 'freedom of speech', personally I think it's an abuse of that right. While I don't advocate against their right to be complete a-holes in public in a
'lawful gathering', let's not kid ourselves about what they are really doing.

They are there to force these women to listen to their religious dogma, advocate against the rights of women and to harass and intimidate women entering the clinic. If they just wanted to 'pray for women and unborn children', they can do that at home or in their churches.

Last edited by Ceist; 09-08-2012 at 11:16 PM..
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,047 posts, read 19,035,433 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post
Well I'm glad that you have justified your intolerance. So because I'm a teenager, my believes are invalid? I'm not worthy of respect? Or tolerance? I know what is morally right and morally wrong, and if people chose to ignore what is morally right for what is morally wrong, I pray for them. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I try to go by the golden rule and I'd want someone to pray for me too.
When I was a teenager I knew everything. Now that I am 60, I know a great deal less.

All I have ever learned is that I can only change myself, and to grant the freedom to everyone else to live as they see fit.
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