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Old 07-08-2013, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,582,235 times
Reputation: 24548

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Teaching did not attract me because, even with a strong union, it never paid very well and because I do not have the temperment to tolerate disruptive undisciplinable children.

OH - Your rules also apply to you.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
33,949 posts, read 32,402,154 times
Reputation: 49901
I think the worst job in the world is White House Press Secretary but pretty close to that is "teacher." If you could get paid what you are being paid now, would you trade places with a teacher?
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,582,235 times
Reputation: 24548
LauraC - No
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,021,247 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Yes, this is an issue I side with conservatives\libertarians. Teacher unions are getting out of hand. Why complain when they earn more than average Americans? They get paid enough. Quit the whining.
Investment bankers earn more than average American too -- more than 20x what teachers earn -- but I never hear any call about capping investment banker salaries.

Last edited by MTAtech; 07-08-2013 at 08:13 AM..
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:08 AM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,275,927 times
Reputation: 2830
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay1980 View Post
You have it backwards. Liberals don't use reason and logic - they are based off of "gut feelings" and "knee-jerk reactions."

I never met a liberal who knew anything about the founding fathers and original American principles.
And this from someone whose emotions and religious fairy tales are the basis for his opinions. lol
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:34 AM
 
8,801 posts, read 5,341,476 times
Reputation: 3673
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Parents are the problem not unions.
The Statist answer to everything .... it's the people's fault, not the overlords in government. The overlords are doing the best they can .. but look what they have to work with!!

The reality is, education has become a huge joke, and unfortunately, the joke is on our youngsters who will wind up dumber than any generation before them. But I don't hear a peep out of the liberal statist mouths about the children being cheated out of a future, as the US rapidly falls on the list of developed nations, heading toward 3rd world status in education results. And for that, people like you want to increase the pay for those who have failed so miserably? We should all agree that this disaster would improve if only teachers were paid higher wages? The fact is, half of them ought to be fired yesterday (some of them, particularly on school boards might ought to be prosecuted) and that's probably a generous estimate. This entire system is an abject failure, from the top down, and it's not even close to rational to blame the parents who now spend less time with their own children than county employees do.

This is what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME, when "central control" takes over ... be it education, or any other field of endeavor. But sticking to the topic of education, the problems most point to are merely symptomatic of the greater problem liberals deny .... leftist-statist control totally fouls up whatever it gets it's claws into.

For several decades now, the liberal left have dominated education from K through the University level and for several decades now, we've watched the United States fall in education. Mere coincidence, of course? I think not.

1) There is no place for Unions in the field of education ... except perhaps a student union or a parents union to demand that these draconian laws mandating them to turn over their children to these leftist nincompoops for 8 hours a day of indoctrination be halted. Choice always ensures better quality ANYTHING ... while a state monopoly that claims to own your child 40 hours a week from age 5 until 18 only guarantees that the results rest solely on the captors, and not the parents or children.

2) Force feeding children this liberal social ideological programming rather than teaching them real information, real knowledge, real facts and then helping them learn how to think is the PRIMARY culprit in the failing of our education system. No longer is knowledge being conveyed and the art of thinking and analyzing and reaching rational decisions being taught. Logic is out, indoctrination is the game. You will not be allowed to think on your own .. independent thought is disruptive to the collective, and we only have an hour for this subject, so further delays and interruptions will not be tolerated. You will recite back what you are taught, verbatim, else you will be punished with poor grades. That's our education system, and it's a pure farce. What result can be expected from this technique of "teaching" besides idiots who can't think for themselves? We're converting human children into parrots. Polly want a cracker? And for that, you want a 6 figure salary? Frack you .. how about a job at a car wash to minimize the damage you cause to society with this leftist lunacy?

3) Let's teach the kids real facts and real history, and not this revised false version that teaches them to believe that America has always been a socialist-communist nightmare where they must never challenge authority, but are expected to comply ... to bow and worship authority in every form that it comes? Let's start there, and you might be surprised that they actually can think, when not being trained not to.

4) Let's teach them real math, and take away their calculators ... maybe then, when they graduate from community college only to discover that they must accept a job at a convenience store ... at least they might be capable of making change for a $5 ?

5) Let's let the parents get back to the job of teaching their children moral values, as the school is no place for such indoctrination. Stop with the social reengineering already ... you all have been at it for decades and look what it has produced!!! Moral relativism is off the charts, thanks to this foul smelling system masquerading as education. Stop teaching our 4th graders how to put a condom on a God Damned banana, while suspending them for daring to utter the word God. Let's start there ... not freaking pay raises for the brain washers.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 24,632,366 times
Reputation: 9178
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Investment bankers earn more than average American too -- more than 20x what teachers earn -- but I never hear any call about capping investment banker salaries.
I am not interested in capping the pay of teachers. I am also not in favor of protecting their jobs via unions.

A great teacher is worth good pay. A bad teacher should be fired.

As for investment bankers, I think they probably make too much money, just like NBA players and Beyonce. But they aren't paid from taxpayer funds.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:00 AM
 
8,801 posts, read 5,341,476 times
Reputation: 3673
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I think the worst job in the world is White House Press Secretary but pretty close to that is "teacher." If you could get paid what you are being paid now, would you trade places with a teacher?
Nonsense .... find a liar who loves to lie, and White House Press Secretary would be his/her dream job, making a very nice salary too.

Secondly, teachers are not indentured servants. They all have just as many choices for vocation as you or I or anyone else has. They choose to be teachers, and they can also choose not to be, anytime they want to.

Thirdly, as the US is failing miserably in education as measured against the rest of the world .... name one good reason to raise the pay of ANYONE involved in this failure? Since when does poor results demand increases in pay in ANY FIELD ?

It's pure madness to think this way.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:53 AM
 
8,801 posts, read 5,341,476 times
Reputation: 3673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker View Post
There are ways you could have gotten him to behave, you'd just have been fired for using them.

This is a problem with the public school system as a whole - you can't DO anything with the bad apples who ruin class/learning time for other students as well as wear out and push good teachers to the brink. They're entitled to a free and public education no matter what they do (short of a few things that would send them to jail or juvvie).
Let's think about this for a few seconds, and see if we can detect a fallacy in this whole line of non-reasoning that must be present to believe this.

We're constantly told that teachers are simply hamstrung and are powerless to keep order in the classroom. They are at the mercy of these "bad apples" who disrupt the class and make it impossible to teach. Therefore, the failure is with the kid and at home, not the school or the teacher? Is that the story?

Now, let's see if we can reconcile this claim with some rather inconvenient facts which seem to hit the headlines on a rather continuous basis these days ...

1) kid suspended for wearing NRA tee shirt

2) Kid suspended for wearing USA flag on Cinco De Mayo as students wear and wave Mexican flags.

3) Kid gets suspended (and arrested) for simply falling asleep at his desk

4) Kid gets suspended for drawing a gun .... not a drawing a gun from his holster ... drawing a gun on paper with a pencil.

5) Kid gets suspended for making the shape of a gun with his hand.

6) Kid gets suspended because his mom packed a plastic knife in his lunch box to cut his apple.

7) Kid gets suspended for praying silently to himself.

8) kid gets kicked out of class for criticizing Obama.

8) kid gets suspended for .... you fill in the blank ... because it's happening all over the country as these nincompoops in charge of schools and their idiotic no-tolerance policies have turned the schools into liberal insane asylums.

Now, are you are going to continue to sit there with a straight face and claim that the teachers and schools are powerless to maintain order, or discipline disruptive students that prevent teachers from teaching? This just doesn't add up at all ... how can that claim be accepted as legitimate when we see students being sent home for wearing a tee shirt with NRA on it because it offended the politically correct but unconstitutional attitude of the anti-gun teacher/school? So, they seem empowered to do as they please when failure to strictly observe asinine liberal rules and political correctness is insulted, which now not only results in suspensions from school, but sometimes results in arrest. But they can't send home a disruptive student that's actually causing a problem. Methinks NOT.

I call BS ... such claims are manufactured excuses for the abject failure, and what I believe to be a product purely by design of the system fundamentally. Blame the victim is what this is ... and nothing more. These kids aren't being taught .. they're being "trained" and this training .... this indoctrination is based on repetition as are all forms of mental programming and brain washing. This does not capture the interests and passion of kids, who may not understand what is actually being done to them and why ... but they naturally recognize at an unconscious level when they are being bombarded with useless nonsense, so they get bored and lose interest entirely.

Schools now cater to the lowest common denominator, and thanks to liberal policies, most schools have a rather significant element of slow students, be that because they come from non-english speaking homes ... uneducated homes ... or just naturally compromised from the 50 plus brain damaging vaccines injected into them .... so the pace and subject matter is simplified, and the normal to gifted students become bored to tears. Welcome to the United Socialist States of America, and the explanation for why we're mass producing idiots who can't think, but can text at 60 cryptic short hand words a minute. It's the only possible outcome, and altogether predictable.

R We kray Z ... ... lite on .... no 1 @ home
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
1,080 posts, read 939,243 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Teaching did not attract me because, even with a strong union, it never paid very well and because I do not have the temperment to tolerate disruptive undisciplinable children.
My thoughts exactly. I'd be in jail.
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