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Old 07-08-2013, 11:26 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 9,745,917 times
Reputation: 4209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Teachers are not over compensated and yes they need a pay raise for all they do. They are expected to be teachers, parents, disciplinarians and counselors and so much more to their kids. They have overcrowded classrooms and limited resources to teach them. A lot of kids don't even speak english and some are special needs. Teachers do the best they can with what's given to them. They are only one person who gets crapped on by people who have no idea what they deal with on a daily basis.
They need a demotion if anything, they suck to the Nth degree anymore and just cheat to keep their jobs and pay rate.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:45 AM
 
Location: NoVA
12,741 posts, read 7,721,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
They need a demotion if anything, they suck to the Nth degree anymore and just cheat to keep their jobs and pay rate.
I say just fire us all and let people like you teach with the same great pay, and all the other same circumstances we currently contend with. Can't wait to see how you do.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:52 AM
 
3,186 posts, read 4,662,632 times
Reputation: 1818
I and my wife both receive a pension from our state . She taught school for 32 years. Anyone who says she doe not deserve her pension needs to have their face slapped so hard they cant see their nose......I get one too and am sick of the crybabies who are jealous of us hard working public servants. Your kids wouldn't be able to even write their name if it wasn't for us..think about that and then give us a big THANK YOU ,that we deserve.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:16 PM
 
7,316 posts, read 4,508,622 times
Reputation: 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
The Statist answer to everything .... it's the people's fault, not the overlords in government. The overlords are doing the best they can .. but look what they have to work with!!

The reality is, education has become a huge joke, and unfortunately, the joke is on our youngsters who will wind up dumber than any generation before them. But I don't hear a peep out of the liberal statist mouths about the children being cheated out of a future, as the US rapidly falls on the list of developed nations, heading toward 3rd world status in education results. And for that, people like you want to increase the pay for those who have failed so miserably? We should all agree that this disaster would improve if only teachers were paid higher wages? The fact is, half of them ought to be fired yesterday (some of them, particularly on school boards might ought to be prosecuted) and that's probably a generous estimate. This entire system is an abject failure, from the top down, and it's not even close to rational to blame the parents who now spend less time with their own children than county employees do.

This is what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME, when "central control" takes over ... be it education, or any other field of endeavor. But sticking to the topic of education, the problems most point to are merely symptomatic of the greater problem liberals deny .... leftist-statist control totally fouls up whatever it gets it's claws into.

For several decades now, the liberal left have dominated education from K through the University level and for several decades now, we've watched the United States fall in education. Mere coincidence, of course? I think not.

1) There is no place for Unions in the field of education ... except perhaps a student union or a parents union to demand that these draconian laws mandating them to turn over their children to these leftist nincompoops for 8 hours a day of indoctrination be halted. Choice always ensures better quality ANYTHING ... while a state monopoly that claims to own your child 40 hours a week from age 5 until 18 only guarantees that the results rest solely on the captors, and not the parents or children.

2) Force feeding children this liberal social ideological programming rather than teaching them real information, real knowledge, real facts and then helping them learn how to think is the PRIMARY culprit in the failing of our education system. No longer is knowledge being conveyed and the art of thinking and analyzing and reaching rational decisions being taught. Logic is out, indoctrination is the game. You will not be allowed to think on your own .. independent thought is disruptive to the collective, and we only have an hour for this subject, so further delays and interruptions will not be tolerated. You will recite back what you are taught, verbatim, else you will be punished with poor grades. That's our education system, and it's a pure farce. What result can be expected from this technique of "teaching" besides idiots who can't think for themselves? We're converting human children into parrots. Polly want a cracker? And for that, you want a 6 figure salary? Frack you .. how about a job at a car wash to minimize the damage you cause to society with this leftist lunacy?

3) Let's teach the kids real facts and real history, and not this revised false version that teaches them to believe that America has always been a socialist-communist nightmare where they must never challenge authority, but are expected to comply ... to bow and worship authority in every form that it comes? Let's start there, and you might be surprised that they actually can think, when not being trained not to.

4) Let's teach them real math, and take away their calculators ... maybe then, when they graduate from community college only to discover that they must accept a job at a convenience store ... at least they might be capable of making change for a $5 ?

5) Let's let the parents get back to the job of teaching their children moral values, as the school is no place for such indoctrination. Stop with the social reengineering already ... you all have been at it for decades and look what it has produced!!! Moral relativism is off the charts, thanks to this foul smelling system masquerading as education. Stop teaching our 4th graders how to put a condom on a God Damned banana, while suspending them for daring to utter the word God. Let's start there ... not freaking pay raises for the brain washers.
I agree with about half of what you said, OR LESS.




I agree that kids aren't learning, but to rely fully on teachers for learning is an incredibly entitled mentality: "My baby shouldn't have to do ANY WORK AT ALL - the teacher should just magically imbue learning into his/her brain." I think the entitlement mentality the parents have nowadays with regard to their kids, is a product of the right wing ideology. I hate to repeat stuff like this over and over, but I'm going to say it again. My meditation teacher says this kind of stuff over and over:
  • If you're not willing to do the work, DON'T BLAME THE TEACHER
  • If you're not willing to exert yourself, DON'T BLAME THE TEACHER
  • If you're not going to give 100%, DON'T BLAME THE TEACHER
  • If you want the teacher to "learn" things for you, DON'T BLAME THE TEACHER
But right wingers, with their "YOU do it - because I'm SO SPECIAL that I shouldn't have to" mentality, expect teachers to do everything for their little monster darlings, so of course, their little darlings end up being totally ignorant, and then their you blame their teachers.

I went to public school in NY, where education was far more centralized (as you call it) than in Florida. Then we moved down to Florida and I began attending a public school in Florida where schools were less "centralized." Even now I cringe thinking about it. From an awesome school in NY where art class was spectacular, books extraordinary, free afternoon arts and crafts classes, fantastic lunches, superb classes subdivided from easiest to most complex maths, literature, etc., great teachers, assembly hall where we learned Broadway musicals and discussed how to improve our school, and all that - to a Florida RUN DOWN, miserably hot, ridiculously poverty-stricken school where the teachers did their best but seemed near-illiterate because, well, the South is somewhat that way. So nah, I've seen what happens when public schools are NOT centralized. You keep chaos. I'll keep the centralization.

If you detect that "liberals" are more strongly present in education (so much so that it causes you to say that liberals "RUN" education) it is because LIBERALS ARE MORE WELL-EDUCATED than right wingers. Liberals have intellectual curiosity, admire education, believe that without an education, this country will be a disaster on wheels. Right wingers, on the other hand, FEAR education, ban education, censor books, try to push the idea that religion is somehow a science, AND teach it as science, strip the humanities (something shown to enhance intelligence) from curricula, whitewash history till it's cartoonized lies so that kids don't hear anything negative about this country, and tear educational institutions into shreds bit by bit.

As for unions, not only is there a need for unions among teachers, as we have seen by the dropping salaries now that your party has spent 33 years destroying unions, but ALL EMPLOYEES IN THE UNITED STATES should belong to unions. Are you kidding me? Unions are THE ONLY strength an employee has against the all-powerful strength of corporations. Why do you right wingers insist that an employee be completely helpless against the power of corporations? Why do you want to provide the powerful with even MORE power over people who have none? Hmm???

And what's this business about a "state monopoly" controlling your child? Thank goodness for kids being away from their religious whacko parents. Homeschooled kids are an unsocialized mess. I've seen some of these kids and believe me, they're like mini mes of their whacko religious parents, and don't fit into society very well. Of course, that's exactly why religious parents like homeschooling - because they can train their kids to be nice and weird, with bizarre, invented evangelical whacko notions that the earth is 5000 years old, that man walked with dinosaurs and other such lies and mythologies. I think that's a form of child abuse, to teach children lies.

I agree that calculators should be missing from schools until they reach higher level mathematics.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:18 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 11,840,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I say just fire us all and let people like you teach with the same great pay, and all the other same circumstances we currently contend with. Can't wait to see how you do.
I could put up with a hell of a lot if I got as much time off every year as teachers do. Last year I worked an average of 72 hours/week and only took three days of vacation the entire year (and that isn't uncommon for my field). Accounting for time spent working at home (grading papers, etc.) teachers work on average 3 hours less than people in other professions (source here), adjusting to assume all professions take the same vacation time. On top of that, teachers work an average of 48.5 days less per year than other professions (source here). So teachers work less hours per week when at work, and have dramatically more vacation time on top of it all. Yes, I could easily put up with a stressful job for that much time off.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:39 PM
 
181 posts, read 183,574 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
I and my wife both receive a pension from our state . She taught school for 32 years. Anyone who says she doe not deserve her pension needs to have their face slapped so hard they cant see their nose......I get one too and am sick of the crybabies who are jealous of us hard working public servants. Your kids wouldn't be able to even write their name if it wasn't for us..think about that and then give us a big THANK YOU ,that we deserve.
Dont forget the free benefits for life.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:55 PM
 
7,316 posts, read 4,508,622 times
Reputation: 2801
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
I could put up with a hell of a lot if I got as much time off every year as teachers do. Last year I worked an average of 72 hours/week and only took three days of vacation the entire year (and that isn't uncommon for my field). Accounting for time spent working at home (grading papers, etc.) teachers work on average 3 hours less than people in other professions (source here), adjusting to assume all professions take the same vacation time. On top of that, teachers work an average of 48.5 days less per year than other professions (source here). So teachers work less hours per week when at work, and have dramatically more vacation time on top of it all. Yes, I could easily put up with a stressful job for that much time off.
I was a teacher. The reason I'm no longer a teacher is because it is one of THE most stressful jobs there is, and the pay since Republicans began their destruction of unions in 1980, is DISMAL. I have less stress and make a lot more doing something else. Right wingers and their trashing of education and teaching is precisely the reason college students don't want to study teaching any longer.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:09 PM
 
171 posts, read 194,023 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay1980 View Post
Wow, you're an idiot I would love to see you in a classroom and watch you eat crow. It would be very entertaining.
Are you really a teacher?
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:26 PM
 
Location: NoVA
12,741 posts, read 7,721,229 times
Reputation: 15614
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
I could put up with a hell of a lot if I got as much time off every year as teachers do. Last year I worked an average of 72 hours/week and only took three days of vacation the entire year (and that isn't uncommon for my field). Accounting for time spent working at home (grading papers, etc.) teachers work on average 3 hours less than people in other professions (source here), adjusting to assume all professions take the same vacation time. On top of that, teachers work an average of 48.5 days less per year than other professions (source here). So teachers work less hours per week when at work, and have dramatically more vacation time on top of it all. Yes, I could easily put up with a stressful job for that much time off.
Then I highly suggest you become a teacher and join the gravy train. If you already have a college degree there are alternative programs that will actually allow you to teach while you get your certification. Since it is the summer, schools are hiring as we speak. The classes and classwork will be worked around your work schedule and some school systems will even pay for it. It will take between 18 months and two years to complete. You don't have to worry about losing money while you are doing this because you will be employed, making all that great money, while in school. It isn't a very large investment of time for such a lucrative career. If you don't have a degree, go back to school, many colleges even have programs that meet at night and it is not uncommon to have non-traditional students in those classes. There are several schools that offer programs that are mostly online too. PM me and I will help you find a route to becoming a teacher that can work for you. I am serious about this offer. Put up or shut up.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:39 PM
 
Location: WA
4,248 posts, read 7,110,955 times
Reputation: 2337
I've noticed that the anti-teacher sentiment is much stronger in rural towns and economically depressed regions. For example, in the town I grew up in, K-12 public school teachers are one of the highest paid professionals because..well, everyone else has low paying jobs. People in these areas think teachers are overpaid slackers who "get the summer off".

In more urban areas and areas that are affluent, teachers are revered. We are the underpaid, hard working civil servants! Teachers in urban areas only make slightly more money than their rural counterparts, even though the cost of living is much higher. So, in urban areas, teachers are one of the lowest paid professionals. Much much less resentment.

I'm an educator in a large, affluent city. Due to the cost of living here, I could not support a family on my wages. If I had a comparable position back in my hometown, even with a slightly lower wage, I'd be living an upper middle class lifestyle.
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