Could you ever forgive a pedophile? Are they deserving of forgiveness? (crime, carry)

[DewDropInn]

Originally Posted by Ethan Edwards

Keep in mind too that a great deal of sexual activity with prepubescent girls does not involve vaginal penetration. It is still likely to be very harmful and can never be condoned, but that particular physical insult is often not present.

"physical insult"

That's how you describe it?

It's rape. R-A-P-E. It has a name. Your posts are full of spin, down-playing and justification. But there's a glaring lack of honesty.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by detshen

Pre-pubescent is the important term in my opinion. These days especially, many 13-14 year olds are quite developed and can possibly pass for 18, definitely pass for 16 which is legal in many states.

That is one of the many benefits of the divorce-free-for-all that social engineers have foisted upon everyone.

Yes, it is.

There are studies that show that girls who grow up with their father present sexually develop slower than girls who do not have the father present.

Why?

Hormones.

The father's hormones produce pheromones which inhibit the sexual maturation of the daughter(s). Search the net. There are peer-reviewed studies by note-worthy universities and medical research organizations.

Originally Posted by detshen

Date rape is rape, period, the term "date rape" shouldn't even exist.

And you can thank Liberals for that.

Originally Posted by detshen

A guy who has intercourse with a girl without her consent, or one who intentionally takes away her ability to consent via drugs, has committed rape.

Since you have never interrogated rapists, and never taken psychology courses in crime, delinquency, human behavior, etc, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference.

There is a difference, a very big difference, and had you interrogated such perpetrators, you would readily come to learn the difference.

Since you don't have a degree in law enforcement, never worked the streets, and never worked as a paralegal or any attorney, and you're not a judge, I wouldn't expect you to understand the legal differences related to intent and the formation of intent. And I wouldn't expect you know weird Latin terms like mens rea and the concepts behind them.

Not everyone who takes a life is a murderer.

Maybe you can understand that.

There is a difference between someone who planned a murder (premeditated ie 1st Degree Murder in most States) and someone who took a life in the "heat of passion." The murderer is a psychopath, or sociopath, who has no regard for human life. That's not the same as the man or woman who got stupid for a second.

Even Classical Biblical Hebrew made a distinction (as did all languages in the past)...

A murderer murders
A person kills
A soldier slays

English is the only language that blurs the distinction between the verbs to murder, to kill and to slay. In other languages, you cannot use those verbs interchangeably, because their connotations are different.

There's a difference between people (men -- overwhelmingly) who plan to commit rape, and then the fool who gets stupid once in their life for a few seconds. When you finally collar a rapist, I guarantee you it wasn't the first time they raped -- it was just the first time they got caught.

Originally Posted by detshen

I'm certainly not saying every 13 yr. old should have sex, most probably shouldn't.

That is the role of the psychiatrist or psychologist, to make the determination of maturity level.

In addition to the IQ -- Intelligences Quotient -- there's also the Emotional IQ, Financial IQ, Relationship IQ, Work IQ, Motivational IQ etc, etc etc. Look at the PsychLit database at your library and read the articles. Age isn't really that relevant, but in terms of the law, it creates a definitive boundary.

That's much the same with DUI and Blood Alcohol Content (BAC). I made 134 DUI arrests with 131 convictions for DUI -- including a conviction on 0.02% BAC.

But I made several hundred DUI traffic stops. Why didn't I arrest the others? They were not "drunk" even though they were over the legal limit. To suggest that every person who has a BAC of 0.8% is "drunk" is absurd and defies biology, physiology, blood chemistry, logic, reason, common sense and freaking science.

Same for persona maturity levels. I've seen 10 year kids who were more mature than adults. I can almost guarantee you they were one of several children from a broken home or a dysfunctional home (usually one or both parents are substance abusers) and those kids stepped up and started running the household -- otherwise nothing would ever get done.

I'm sure there are kids who have the requisite emotional, mental and relationship maturity to handle sex, but that would be exception, and not the rule, and it would be up to an unbiased observer to interview them and determine what their emotional, mental and relationship levels really are.

Originally Posted by detshen

Why don't we have a murderer registry?

Because murders generally are not paroled, or paroled at advanced ages.

Psychologically...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Ethan Edwards

I realize many people are disgusted by the very existence of men attracted to children, and so I'd ask you to think about whether you want to read this or not. No child is in any danger from me.

Every child is in danger from you.

Originally Posted by Ethan Edwards

For those of you who are straight (not bi), do you really understand what it feels like to be attracted to someone of your gender? We're used to it, we accept it (and count on it), but do we really understand what it feels like?

It is abnormal, and nothing you can say or do will ever make it normal.

Originally Posted by Ethan Edwards

A somewhat longer bio of me is the Ethan Edwards tab here:
Virtuous Pedophiles - Who We Are

Ethan

Wow, imagine that, a gang of thieves proclaiming their virtuosity.

Originally Posted by Ethan Edwards

The way I see it, not all adult-child sex ends up being harmful, as your example clearly shows.

Yes, but then you're biased, prejudiced and bigoted, and have a very clear agenda, so you are not an authority by any stretch of the imagination.

Disgusted...

Mircea

Originally Posted by faeryedark

PLEASE!!!! AGAIN!!! "SEX OFFENDER" DOES NOT EQUAL PEDOPHILE

Please..because a lot of people see the words "sex offender" and assume they are a pedophile.
"SEX OFFENDER" is a label and can include anyone who has done a "crime" of a "sexual nature" which in some states includes skinny-dipping, having sex in a public place, streaking, mooning, peeing behind bushes etc.
"PEDOPHILE" is a diagnosis

Not every person who has "molested" someone is a pedophile either

Try reading the entire post....

Originally Posted by Mircea

I suppose I should point out that not everyone who commits a sex offense is a sexual offender. I'm not talking about "date rape" and other acts of general stupidity.

There is a very clear and distinct difference between a drunk guy who has sex with a drunk girl, and then a guy who intentionally gets a girl drunk, or drugs her, for the express intended purpose of sex.

Those are two different animals. The former is just drunk and stupid, and can be rehabilitated, while the latter is an inherently evil person who is broken and can never be fixed, so it would be in everyone's best interest to have them taken out and shot.

...I was light years ahead of everyone.

Contrary to what you believe - and your arguments are emotional and not factual --- all sex offenders are "molesters."

Pedophiles are sex offenders are molesters.
Paraphiles are sex offenders are molesters.
Rapists are sex offenders are molesters.
Weeny-wagers are sex offenders are molesters (even if they don't physically contact their victims).

Got it sweety?

We ain't talking about people like me who dropped their drawers on the school bus and mooned the band and drill team at William Henry Harrison High School after we just stomped their guts out 45-6 on Friday night football.

We ain't talking about a bunch of guys and gals skinny dipping in the Great Miami or Whitewater rivers.

We ain't talking about a guy with 19 years doing a 15 or 16 year old.

We ain't talking about "date rape."

We're talking about abnormal people who have abnormal ideas about sex and sexuality, who commit repeated acts of pedophilia, repeated acts of paraphilia, repeated rapes and other repeated sexual offenses.

If you cannot tell the difference, then maybe you should do the honorable thing and withdraw from the discussion.

And if you don't like the label, then maybe you should organize and effect change.

Refuting...

Mircea

Originally Posted by djacques

That begs the question of what you mean by rehabilitation. If you mean people do not change what they find sexually appealing, you are correct.

If you mean that all sexual offenders reoffend, that is disproven by even a casual glance at actual statistics.

http://www.endsexcrime.org

"Registrant Organization:PrivacyProtect.org"

Yeah, sure, no conflict of interest there.

And contrary to your claims, sexual offenders do re-offend. Again, review the material in peer-reviewed journals.

There are no bona fide cases of a sexual predator having been rehabilitated.

None. Not one. There are none walking this Earth.

Just as the absence of conflict is not peace, the absence of criminal activity is not proof of rehabilitation.

Reiterating...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Roadking2003

Why would you treat them any different than other criminals? And which violent crimes can society tolerate?

Should you cut off the hands of a thief?

Why not? It works.

Lopping...

Mircea

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

You are more concerned about the attitude towards child molesters/abusers than you are about the act of child abuse/child sexual molestation?

Really?

Pretty sick, huh?

I wonder how "Ethan Edwards" ended up here.

Curious...

Mircea

[Workin_Hard]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

I think Jesus would forgive the person, and I think it is probably the right thing to do, but I doubt I could do it.

It's up to Jesus to forgive. Society should arrange for a face-to-face meeting between Jesus and the pedo as quickly as possible. In. All. Cases.

I would drawn absolutely no distinction between a 45 y.o. man with a 9 y.o. or a 18 y.o. getting a BJ from his 17 y.o. girlfriend. No means no. It could certainly serve as a learning experience for that 18 y.o.

[Workin_Hard]

Originally Posted by faeryedark

PLEASE!!!! AGAIN!!! "SEX OFFENDER" DOES NOT EQUAL PEDOPHILE

Po-tat-o, po-tah-to...

Let God sort them out....

[Clintone]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

It's up to Jesus to forgive. Society should arrange for a face-to-face meeting between Jesus and the pedo as quickly as possible. In. All. Cases.

I would drawn absolutely no distinction between a 45 y.o. man with a 9 y.o. or a 18 y.o. getting a BJ from his 17 y.o. girlfriend. No means no. It could certainly serve as a learning experience for that 18 y.o.

Gonna disagree here just a tidbit...taking into account that you're talking about an area in which the legal age is 18 and not 17 like it is here in Missouri. I don't think laws should be followed because they are laws. Laws should not be moral guidelines. I kinda like the idea that it is morally right to break laws that don't make sense, actually.

If a given law does not assist society, that law has broken its pact with society to assist society. In such a case, I see no moral reason for society to not ignore the law in return.

[detshen]

Originally Posted by Mircea

That is one of the many benefits of the divorce-free-for-all that social engineers have foisted upon everyone.

Yes, it is.

There are studies that show that girls who grow up with their father present sexually develop slower than girls who do not have the father present.

Why?

Hormones.

The father's hormones produce pheromones which inhibit the sexual maturation of the daughter(s). Search the net. There are peer-reviewed studies by note-worthy universities and medical research organizations.



And you can thank Liberals for that.



Since you have never interrogated rapists, and never taken psychology courses in crime, delinquency, human behavior, etc, I wouldn't expect you to know the difference.

There is a difference, a very big difference, and had you interrogated such perpetrators, you would readily come to learn the difference.

Since you don't have a degree in law enforcement, never worked the streets, and never worked as a paralegal or any attorney, and you're not a judge, I wouldn't expect you to understand the legal differences related to intent and the formation of intent. And I wouldn't expect you know weird Latin terms like mens rea and the concepts behind them.

That may be true about male pheromones, but it's certainly not the only reason or a foolproof idea. Myself, and pretty much all of my friends grew up with fathers present, and yet we all had matured and looked womanly by 13-14, I have pictures I can look at a today and at 13-14 we looked like a group of young women, not children at all. It has a lot to do with diet also.

You're putting words in my mouth (so to speak), I never said their was no difference between the criminal sexual deviant and the "date"rapist, but the guy who has had sex with a girl w/o her consent has still committed a rape and deserves punishment, he's still violated a woman and caused her pain that in many ways will last a lifetime. I don't see that as a simple act of stupidity, it's still rape to a woman. That is not the same as mooning someone, or peeing outside. You say they can be rehabilitated, whereas the others can't, that may be true, but that shouldn't let them off the hook for the crime they did commit.

[D. Scott]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

Are you serious? That doesn't make any sense.

I agree that post was...No pun intended-Nuts. Lets sterilize the whole family because of one deviant. Smart. Real smart.

[faeryedark]

Originally Posted by detshen

I did not mean to imply that in all cases it would be okay, I was only saying that at 13, I was okay having sex, it wasn't abuse, I wasn't hurt by it, but at 13 I was not with men over 18, I was with generally inexperienced boys. I didn't start seeing guys in their twenties until I was 15-16, close or at consent age. I don't think it's cut and dry, but no man over 21 should be having sex with anyone under the age of consent, I become more forgiving when the guy is 18-19, guys just tend to mature slower.

I would also take issue with a 23 year old being with a 13 year old, and many 13 year olds could be hurt by someone, especially an authority figure, or manipulative, very experienced man.

Okay, then we're pretty much of a like mind.
I'm glad that things worked out for you ok, having sex so young.
Unfortunately, I've seen the flip side sooo often among my friends when I was a teen
Not that their partners, all under 18, should have been in trouble or anything, just that neither of them were ready for all that went with sex at that age.

[faeryedark]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

Po-tat-o, po-tah-to...

Let God sort them out....

So...Gary Blanton who was gunned down by Patrick Drum because Drum found him on the registry, for something he did 20 years ago, deserved it?
Oh and what did he do? he was 17 and had sex with a 17 yr old girl from his high-school. Momma found out, and pressed charges, claiming he raped a disabled child. She WAS 17! and deaf...not exactly the "disability" most people would assume...and it was consenual
Not every person who is labeled a 'sex offender" raped or hurt another

[detshen]

Originally Posted by faeryedark

Okay, then we're pretty much of a like mind.
I'm glad that things worked out for you ok, having sex so young.
Unfortunately, I've seen the flip side sooo often among my friends when I was a teen
Not that their partners, all under 18, should have been in trouble or anything, just that neither of them were ready for all that went with sex at that age.

In an ideal world no one under 18 would have sex, the consequences of pregnancy/STD are heavy duty, but it's just not reality, so we need to teach kids to be as responsible as possible, and really think out ahead of time what they can handle. I've always looked at sex more like a guy, I don't know why, it's just how I am, I never thought it meant love, or was really a big deal, so I knew it wasn't going to hurt me. I know many girls aren't like that, and many can end up hurt by having sex too young, especially with an older experienced man who may be manipulating her, so I don't mean to encourage it or anything.