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Although it might help if they didn't keep saying they want to wipe Israel from teh face of the earth...that doesn't really promote peace. I can think of better approaches.
If a trespasser breaks into your house and says "This is my house, because my ancestors lived here centuries ago", and then he gets out his own nuke, it doesn't promote peace to want to make him leave? What is the better approach?
If a trespasser breaks into your house and says "This is my house, because my ancestors lived here centuries ago", and then he gets out his own nuke, it doesn't promote peace to want to make him leave? What is the better approach?
Does not compute - argue that Israel displaced Palestinians if you want, but Israel didn't displace or take land from Persians in Iran.
And as for Iran safeguarding themselves with nukes...they've said repeatedly that they want to wipe Israel off the map (which wouldn't exactly secure the land for anyone else). Their leader is in his own world - a holocaust denier and menace to his own people. A nuclear Iran would not be a good thing for anyone - including Iran, ultimately.
Does not compute - argue that Israel displaced Palestinians if you want, but Israel didn't displace or take land from Persians in Iran.
And as for Iran safeguarding themselves with nukes...they've said repeatedly that they want to wipe Israel off the map (which wouldn't exactly secure the land for anyone else). Their leader is in his own world - a holocaust denier and menace to his own people. A nuclear Iran would not be a good thing for anyone - including Iran, ultimately.
But a nuclear Israel is a wonderful thing, assuring world peace, right? I never said Israel ever took land from Iran, but Hitler and Hirohito and Stalin and Mao never took land from the USA, either, did they? That didn't stop us from threatening (usually with nukes) to wipe them off the earth.
Before you say "But we were protecting our friends and allies", first think about whether Iran can say that, too.
But a nuclear Israel is a wonderful thing, assuring world peace, right? I never said Israel ever took land from Iran, but Hitler and Hirohito and Stalin and Mao never took land from the USA, either, did they? That didn't stop us from threatening (usually with nukes) to wipe them off the earth.
Before you say "But we were protecting our friends and allies", first think about whether Iran can say that, too.
Although more stable, I'm not thrilled with a nuclear Israel either. 1 poster said the only way Iran can be safe in the region is to have their own nukes. 2nd poster said Iran keeps threatening to wipe Israel off the map - not exactly peaceable. Then you made the statement that I quoted and responded to - about trespassers. My read was that you were speaking specifically about Israel and Iran. These other diversions - Hitler, Hirohito, Stalin, Mao, USA - weren't in that part of the conversation. Perhaps I misread you.
Although more stable, I'm not thrilled with a nuclear Israel either. 1 poster said the only way Iran can be safe in the region is to have their own nukes. 2nd poster said Iran keeps threatening to wipe Israel off the map - not exactly peaceable. Then you made the statement that I quoted and responded to - about trespassers. My read was that you were speaking specifically about Israel and Iran. These other diversions - Hitler, Hirohito, Stalin, Mao, USA - weren't in that part of the conversation. Perhaps I misread you.
You argued that Iran has no reason to be concerned with Israel, and the only reason you proffered was that (so far) Israel has not stolen any land in Iran. I cited a century of the USA constantly invading or threatening from a position of nuclear power a string of nations and peoples around the world, none of whom had ever set foot on US territory. It is a question of whether Iran is more or less justified than the US in using its military and economic clout and nuclear response capability to influence affairs where there was no specific threat to their own territorial integrity and security.
Using the USA as an historical model, Iran has EVERY right to arm itself with nuclear weapons in order to defend its allies, some of whom are already living in occupied territories under an alien and despotic power with nuclear capabilities. You can't hold Iran to a standard of restraint that even your own country repeatedly and constantly fails to meet.
You argued that Iran has no reason to be concerned with Israel, and the only reason you proffered was that (so far) Israel has not stolen any land in Iran. I cited a century of the USA constantly invading or threatening from a position of nuclear power a string of nations and peoples around the world, none of whom had ever set foot on US territory. It is a question of whether Iran is more or less justified than the US in using its military and economic clout and nuclear response capability to influence affairs where there was no specific threat to their own territorial integrity and security.
Using the USA as an historical model, Iran has EVERY right to arm itself with nuclear weapons in order to defend its allies, some of whom are already living in occupied territories under an alien and despotic power with nuclear capabilities. You can't hold Iran to a standard of restraint that even your own country repeatedly and constantly fails to meet.
I didn't suggest at all that Iran has no reason to be concerned with Israel. The only reason I mentioned land was in direct response to your now cryptic comment to almost3am.
I never addressed Iran's right to defend themselves with nuclear weapons, or to develop nuclear power capabilities - only the possible motivation (defense vs offense, for example) and my personal opinion that it'd be even scarier for Iran to have nuclear weapons than it is for certain other countries.
I didn't suggest at all that Iran has no reason to be concerned with Israel. The only reason I mentioned land was in direct response to your now cryptic comment to almost3am.
I never addressed Iran's right to defend themselves with nuclear weapons, or to develop nuclear power capabilities - only the possible motivation (defense vs offense, for example) and my personal opinion that it'd be even scarier for Iran to have nuclear weapons than it is for certain other countries.
Well, I challenged Almost3Am to offer a better approach to foster peace than a parity of military power, and no response was forthcoming from either of you. The status quo is one nation that has aggressively intruded into the sphere of influence of another and oppressed the displaced populace, for three generations and brought imbalanced nuclear capability to enforce their will. I'm on Iran's side, in that they have not shown international aggression and have allies that have already been occupied.
Israel and Iran are facts, not hypothetical ideas. We need to deal with the reality that exists on the ground. If both have balanced nuclear strike capabilities, their relationship is unlikely to advance beyond a cold war, regardless of what an affront they both may be to anybody's sense of decency.
Please don't tell me that my allusion to Israel trespassing in the Islamic world was so "cryptic" that you didn't understand what I was talking about.
Regardless of israel there is a dirty little secret that if often overlooked but most arab countries don't like iran to put it mildly and some would actually trust israel more so with a bomb than they would iran.
Iran developing a bomb will undoubtedly start a nuclear arms race in the most unstable region of the world. There is absolutely no other reason for iran to develop a nuclear weapon other than try to increase its influence and dominance on the region and its arab neighbors.
This is not a the soviet union were dealing with here. Guys like ahmadinejad and the ayatollahs make khrushchev on his worst day seem like a reasonable gent.
If Iran gets nukes, Saudi Arabia will then go out of their way to get nukes because they will be crapping themselves. That's the last thing we need, an arms race in the region.
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