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It always amazes me how so many adults deny the social factors that effect standardized testing.
I don't know all the answers, nor do I really believe that these test are purposefully designed to be somehow harder for certain races.
I think performance on the test has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors than race. They never seem to explore that. I think if you looked at the back grounds of the parents you would find that children coming from college educated parents perform better.
I did not read all the comments and many of them are indeed racist. You racist people are cowards.
Anyhow, there is something going on, not sure what it is. Blacks are just as intelligent as Whites if given the same opportunities, they can do well on these test. The test are not geared against them.
My children are black and do very well on the test. My oldest son is in a nice school he had to test into. He always test into the top 2 percentile and has an IQ of 148. Chances are he's smarter than your child.
Why? His parents are educated and value education. It is my experience that non-educated and generally poor parents raise kids that do not value education. I don't really blame the kids, I blame the parents.
We could talk about why minorities are commonly in this position but that would be a different topic altogether and one that apparently most of you are not equipped to discuss.
To say that there are not social factors that contribute to one persons success over another reeks of ignorance and denial, but I'm not going to change your minds. I probably make more money than you do though and that makes me feel some satisfaction. There are many lazy whites who even given all the benefits of a white society still fail and blame affirmative action for their failures. Their laziness will be their undoing and there will come a day when "whites will wonder where did it all go?" They'll blame everyone but themselves.
How many of you hate to see a black man drive a nicer car than you, because he worked harder and got a better education than you did?
Anyhow, there is something going on, not sure what it is. Blacks are just as intelligent as Whites if given the same opportunities, they can do well on these test. The test are not geared against them.
I think you're saying what most people on here are saying. Of course they can do well. Of course they are just as intelligent. Of course the tests are not geared against them. Like you, people are wondering WHY the black kids do not do as well.
Why? His parents are educated and value education. It is my experience that non-educated and generally poor parents raise kids that do not value education. I don't really blame the kids, I blame the parents.
Again, I think we're in agreement here. It's the parents. Just ignore the few racists in here and mostly we all agree--it's the parents and the home environment that matter. As a few people have said, just look at the minority Asians who are disadvantaged, yet because the parents emphasize education, the kids do well.
It always amazes me how so many adults deny the social factors that effect standardized testing.
I don't know all the answers, nor do I really believe that these test are purposefully designed to be somehow harder for certain races.
I think performance on the test has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors than race. They never seem to explore that. I think if you looked at the back grounds of the parents you would find that children coming from college educated parents perform better.
I did not read all the comments and many of them are indeed racist. You racist people are cowards.
Anyhow, there is something going on, not sure what it is. Blacks are just as intelligent as Whites if given the same opportunities, they can do well on these test. The test are not geared against them.
My children are black and do very well on the test. My oldest son is in a nice school he had to test into. He always test into the top 2 percentile and has an IQ of 148. Chances are he's smarter than your child.
Why? His parents are educated and value education. It is my experience that non-educated and generally poor parents raise kids that do not value education. I don't really blame the kids, I blame the parents.
We could talk about why minorities are commonly in this position but that would be a different topic altogether and one that apparently most of you are not equipped to discuss.
To say that there are not social factors that contribute to one persons success over another reeks of ignorance and denial, but I'm not going to change your minds. I probably make more money than you do though and that makes me feel some satisfaction. There are many lazy whites who even given all the benefits of a white society still fail and blame affirmative action for their failures. Their laziness will be their undoing and there will come a day when "whites will wonder where did it all go?" They'll blame everyone but themselves.
How many of you hate to see a black man drive a nicer car than you, because he worked harder and got a better education than you did?
It's important to note that this threads core point is that NAACP is complaining that the test is letting in too many ASIAN minorities at the expense of blacks.
I agree about socioeconomic factors but favored using the term cultural because I've seen the same issues of not studying hard etc. in mostly white upper-middle class burbs and have noted that it's not just the black kids, but also the white kids being passed up.
Lastly, if you go back through the early parts of the thread we have a lot of people running in making jabs about white racists and blacks not having access to tutors, test prep etc. and when we point out the resources....they ran right back under their rocks.
So, for the few racist remarks upsetting you (and I agree with you) we've had three times that many people throwing around vile stuff from the other side and it's galling that there are all these opportunities out there, people don't take them...fail and then blame racism.
It always amazes me how so many adults deny the social factors that effect standardized testing.
I don't know all the answers, nor do I really believe that these test are purposefully designed to be somehow harder for certain races.
I think performance on the test has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors than race. They never seem to explore that. I think if you looked at the back grounds of the parents you would find that children coming from college educated parents perform better.
I did not read all the comments and many of them are indeed racist. You racist people are cowards.
Anyhow, there is something going on, not sure what it is. Blacks are just as intelligent as Whites if given the same opportunities, they can do well on these test. The test are not geared against them.
My children are black and do very well on the test. My oldest son is in a nice school he had to test into. He always test into the top 2 percentile and has an IQ of 148. Chances are he's smarter than your child.
Why? His parents are educated and value education. It is my experience that non-educated and generally poor parents raise kids that do not value education. I don't really blame the kids, I blame the parents.
We could talk about why minorities are commonly in this position but that would be a different topic altogether and one that apparently most of you are not equipped to discuss.
To say that there are not social factors that contribute to one persons success over another reeks of ignorance and denial, but I'm not going to change your minds. I probably make more money than you do though and that makes me feel some satisfaction. There are many lazy whites who even given all the benefits of a white society still fail and blame affirmative action for their failures. Their laziness will be their undoing and there will come a day when "whites will wonder where did it all go?" They'll blame everyone but themselves.
How many of you hate to see a black man drive a nicer car than you, because he worked harder and got a better education than you did?
So do you get all in a huff when you see a white man drive a nicer car than you because you feel that he's been given all the advantages in the world and had an easy time in his life?
Also, you didn't read all the comments, but you say you did see a lot of racist comments. Please tell me, which comments you found racist.
These people don't discipline or educate their kids ,so then the rest of society has to fall over themselves attempting to appease these animals. Sad...
White people created the NAACP ... and named the organization too?
Wow, the things one can learn on City Data!
Actually yes, many of the founders of the NAACP were white and the term coloured was not offensive at the time. If you do some googlin' you can find pictures of the founders etc. etc. it's actually quite interesting history.
It always amazes me how so many adults deny the social factors that effect standardized testing.
I want to dissect this post so that each element can receive it's due consideration. This opening statement says a lot more than what might be initially obvious. The underlying insinuation (based on the opening, along with the theme of the rest of the post) suggests that these "social factors" allegedly being "denied" are factors being imposed on black people by white society ... i.e. the society that also denies the existence and impact of those very social inequity factors that they have imposed.
The reality is, many things could be labeled "social factors", and they are just as likely to be due to one's own efforts or lack thereof, as they might be attributed to some outwardly imposed condition. But the scope of "social factors" is much too broad to make such insinuations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exaday
I don't know all the answers, nor do I really believe that these test are purposefully designed to be somehow harder for certain races.
I think performance on the test has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors than race. They never seem to explore that. I think if you looked at the back grounds of the parents you would find that children coming from college educated parents perform better.
Now "socioeconomic factor" is more specific, and certainly could be a contributing factor, but there is too much evidence of additional factors to give it heavy advantage. It is "a" factor, certainly, but unlikely to be "THE" factor. There are plenty of examples of those coming from poor families that managed to become college educated, who in turn became far more economically successful than their parents. That kinda puts the kibosh on the preeminence of "socioeconomic" factors. At the same time, there are also plenty of examples of rather illiterate college graduates who received their education funding for college through athletic scholarships, which would also dismiss the economic factor as having any relative impact in those cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exaday
I did not read all the comments and many of them are indeed racist. You racist people are cowards.
Anyhow, there is something going on, not sure what it is. Blacks are just as intelligent as Whites if given the same opportunities, they can do well on these test. The test are not geared against them.
Another example of the message far exceeding the words used here. First, you say Racist racist racist ... and then claim that "something is going on here, not sure what it is". Sounds to me like you are very sure what it is .... racism .... that's what I hear ... and blacks only fail when they are not "given" the same opportunities ... read: the same opportunities being denied them by the racists racists racists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exaday
My children are black and do very well on the test. My oldest son is in a nice school he had to test into. He always test into the top 2 percentile and has an IQ of 148. Chances are he's smarter than your child.
Why? His parents are educated and value education. It is my experience that non-educated and generally poor parents raise kids that do not value education. I don't really blame the kids, I blame the parents.
OK ... so the parents are the racists toward their own children then? Or is is not a case of racism at all, but of a failure of parents ... and if that failure becomes dominant in a specific group, could that mean a community or cultural failure? You seem all over the map here .... it's racism ... then it's the parents .. then it's racism again. Make up your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exaday
We could talk about why minorities are commonly in this position but that would be a different topic altogether and one that apparently most of you are not equipped to discuss.
Which is another way of saying "you just can't have a meaningful conversation regarding racism, with a bunch of racists, which apparently are everywhere", except for when they aren't there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exaday
To say that there are not social factors that contribute to one persons success over another reeks of ignorance and denial, but I'm not going to change your minds. I probably make more money than you do though and that makes me feel some satisfaction. There are many lazy whites who even given all the benefits of a white society still fail and blame affirmative action for their failures. Their laziness will be their undoing and there will come a day when "whites will wonder where did it all go?" They'll blame everyone but themselves.
Now we are back to having "social factors" being someone else's imposed restrictions and therefore someone else's fault, rather than a personal responsibility failure or a failure of the parents to instill good work/study ethic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exaday
How many of you hate to see a black man drive a nicer car than you, because he worked harder and got a better education than you did?
And finally, we have the grand finale .... "I know you are all secretly racists at heart, even if you all don't see it in yourselves, and you despise it when a black man can overcome your racism and be more successful than you, don't you?".
The reality is, one's personal success is determined more by his or her own capability and actions than any other single or group of factors. And the number of variables are immense. From basic raw intelligence alone (which is only one of the many factors), a multitude of sub-factors exist, from genetics to the damned food and drink one consumes growing up, as well as other environmental exposures, which can affect brain development and relative cognitive ability.
Then there are other social factors, like the role models and mentors available .... the peers one grows up around, the community at large and the overall attitude toward education and ethics .... the family structure and siblings and the relationships with these individuals ... the skills and abilities and attitudes of one's parents are a factor ... the individual disposition and personality of the child is a factor ... the individual interests of the child is a factor ... the list goes on and on and on. Fact is, most people know of families with 2, 3, 4 or more siblings, where 3 out of the 4 turn out to be outstanding achievers, and one who was just a "bad seed" .. the "odd one" who was totally different than the rest (I hesitate to use the common phrase "Black Sheep of the family" as that woud give me away as the deep seated racist that I surely am )
The truth is, it is impossible to have a meaningful conversation about a subject that consists of such a multitude of complex factors, when that complexity is reduced to one predominant and predetermined factor, such as assigning blame to racism.
But I tell you this .... there is no greater indication that a particular person is a racist, than the person's own preoccupation with the subject.
"The black parents feel it is their role to move to Shaker Heights, pay the higher taxes so their kids could graduate from Shaker, and that's where their role stops," Ogbu says during an interview at his home in the Oakland hills. "They believe the school system should take care of the rest. They didn't supervise their children that much. They didn't make sure their children did their homework. That's not how other ethnic groups think." Rich, Black, Flunking | Feature | Oakland, Berkeley & Bay Area News & Arts Coverage
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