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OOPS! "Culture" can be developed by education! It's right there, in the dictionary (OneLook Dictionary Search (broken link))! And education is something that the government does. So affecting and/or developing culture CAN be accomplished by the government, according to the dictionary. But not so well, of course, according to CONSERVATIVES and LIBERTARIANS and such. They would rather DISMANTLE the entire public education system!
Your turn.
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Main Entry: 1cul·ture
Pronunciation: 'k&l-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, cultivated land, cultivation, from Anglo-French, from Latin cultura, from cultus, past participle
1 : CULTIVATION, TILLAGE
2 : the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education
3 : expert care and training <beauty culture>
4 a : enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training b : acquaintance with and taste in fine arts, humanities, and broad aspects of science as distinguished from vocational and technical skills
5 a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture> c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line> d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time -- Peggy O'Mara>
6 : the act or process of cultivating living material (as bacteria or viruses) in prepared nutrient media; also : a product of such cultivation
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Do not put words in my mouth. You are changing your own view rather than responding to the counterpoint. The typical move the goal post technique. My post centered on causes. I said nothing about punishment.
And homelessness is a completely different thing worthy of its own thread. Stay on topic please.
I was referring to
"For many people, it's the complete opposite. They look around and see how they are living and set their mind to getting out of it......and they do. It's all about drive and determination. Some people have it and some people don't. Those that don't aren't entitled to my tax dollars for their support."
which was not written by you but was written by the guy who typed his typings right before I did mine, the man what apparently wants the nation to come sooner, or something.
How should the goverment adress it, if at all? Guaranteed minimum income for everybody? Time limits, work requirements for welfare, no welfare, public works, "just let the market do its job," etc.
What's your opinion? I did this earlier and gave the opposite of my opinion, which led to the discussing being stopped in its tracks.
Quite frankly, I wonder if welfare, poverty and low income jobs are really such serious national problems worthy of much addressing and concern?
The unemployment rate has been staying under 5%. I would venture to say that most of those who are unemployed today have found work within several months.
15% or so live in poverty today. But I would venture to say that the majority of those have done something about their situation after no more than several years and are no longer in poverty or on government handouts.
There's always gonna be some people who are pleased with what government handouts offer them and have no dreams of doing better.
"You can't get rid of poverty by giving people money."
P. J. O'Rourke
It’s very important — especially when we’re fighting these abstemious, prohibitionist, fundamentalist groups — that the bars stay open.
--P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.cato.org/pubs/letters/orourke-catosletters.pdf (broken link)
I implied that government cannot change culture and will only make the situation worse. Keeping the state out beyond a reasonable social security net is certainly part of the solution.
International comparisons of the income mobility/poverty of people in developed countries don't support this. Of course, there are plenty of factors involved that make such studies imprecise, but we also have the fact that for all the demonization of the "Great Society," poverty nearly halved withing 5 or 10 years of its creation and hasn't approached the same level since, even through the recessions of the 70's, 90's, recently... actually recently it's been trending upward, under Republican rule, welfare reform, etc. You need to provide evidence for your conclusions.
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Otherwise, its obvious. Indeed, ridiculously obvious:
1) Prudent Family Planning: Do not have kids out of wedlock. Children are huge responsibilities. Do not do it. And even when married, do not have more than you can support. This is a no brainer. If you cannot afford them, do not have them.
Do you have some evidence that most people who grow up poor and don't have kids out of wedlock become middle class later on? What about people who think they'll be able to support their kids but find out later on that they can't? These things happen, you know. Life isn't simple or uniform.
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2) Education: A strong back does not cut it anymore. Everyone will need a reasonable if not impressive level of education. This starts in Kindergarten if not before. Parents need to motive their kids, get involved with the schools and prepare and save something for ever higher levels.
You don't think funding/prioritized teacher pay/incentives for troubled systems would help any? Better learning environments don't matter, it's all on the kids and their parents? In a lot of cases just a high school education doesn't really cut it, and obviously poverty can make it difficult to get into college.
But also, even if everyone was prepared for skilled labor, would there be enough skilled-type jobs for everyone to have them? We'd still need cashiers, burger flippers, warehouse workers, cab drivers, etc. ... I don't think you could fill all of those positions with teenagers and "secondary earners."
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Because its broken families that cause poverty.
You seem to only want to acknowledge one half of the cycle.
I have the solution to poverty... get rid of welfare entirely. Even if you're just giving them enough money to live off of they'll still find ways to abuse the system and live happily with no salary. If you take away their welfare it forces them to get off their lazy asses and get a job. There's plenty of jobs out there and plenty of ways to invent new sources of income so if someone sits there and dies from starvation it's their own damn fault. I don't care where you live, there's always a way to make money. And if all else fails, grow some corn.
I know this is a harsh solution but there's a little something that God intended called survival of the fittest. Those that would continue to go jobless and die from starvation would do so because of their own stupidity. If that happens... one less stupid person to procreate more stupid people.
Ever seen the movie Idiocracy? The movie itself wasn't that great but the first 5 minutes preaches a cold fact. Stupid people living on welfare produce many more offspring on government money than smart people who make their own money. If we continue to take away natural selection smart people will eventually die out and the human race go exctinct because stupid people will take over the world on welfare and then die of starvation when the smart people giving them welfare die out.
I wonder if this were to happen how many stupid people would become smart people because they actually have to TRY to survive...
Do you have some evidence that most people who grow up poor and don't have kids out of wedlock become middle class later on?
Do you? One thing is for certain, they do not reproduce and replicate their own poverty.
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What about people who think they'll be able to support their kids but find out later on that they can't? These things happen, you know. Life isn't simple or uniform.
Quite true. But such a broad topic requires some surrender to generalizations in order to focus on the majority cases. One finds all kinds of exceptions in this universe- handicapped professional athletes, celebrities with no talent, etc. We can find all kinds of exceptions to the model I have drawn, but I doubt they would constitute a majority. Life is full of risks.
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You don't think funding/prioritized teacher pay/incentives for troubled systems would help any? Better learning environments don't matter, it's all on the kids and their parents? In a lot of cases just a high school education doesn't really cut it, and obviously poverty can make it difficult to get into college.
I think its clear that your average municipality (NYC for example) spends more per pupil than a private school charges. Of course a good deal of that gets sucked up by the bureaucracy so reform there is an obvious if not difficult priority.
But yes, from my observations, kids who do not want to learn will not do so. And they usually will not if their parents’ are not on them day in and day out. That’s assuming, once again, that there are parents even in the picture. The proverbial, “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.” So it goes.
And you are correct, a mere high school diploma does not cut it. So a good start would be for people to finish high school. If I thought the State could accomplish these things vis a vis yet another program (No Child Shall Drop Out?) I would gladly support it. And yes, teachers deserve better pay, but that is another topic.
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But also, even if everyone was prepared for skilled labor, would there be enough skilled-type jobs for everyone to have them? We'd still need cashiers, burger flippers, warehouse workers, cab drivers, etc. ... I don't think you could fill all of those positions with teenagers and "secondary earners."
I believe you and I discussed just that on another thread so you have my answer. Suffice it to say it sounds pretty defeatist.
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You seem to only want to acknowledge one half of the cycle.
Because what I am saying constitutes much more than a half.
So... in your view human life is only worth the goods it produces for the rest of society and its "positive contribution to the future gene pool?" We've had your wonderful utopia before. I find it hilarious that you consider your Social Darwinism, loosely (and fallaciously) based on the very evolutionary theory that helped to establish the intellectual legitimacy of agnosticism/atheism as something "God ordained." It's people like you who create the types of societies that lead to popular revolutions.
As for those horrible ungrateful poor wretches having to TRY to survive, why don't you move to the Bronx or Compton for a few years and see if you have to TRY to survive??? I'm sure it'll be easy going for you, with your superior intellect and genes, you know. While you're at it, go stand on the corner and yell at all of the evil scary welfare bums around you to stop being so damn lazy and get a job, that they wouldn't be poor if they just weren't so stupid. I'm sure they'd appreciate it and take your wise words to heart.
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