If women are unfairly paid (aka paid less than men) ...

[jade408]

Exactly. ^^^

I remember an incident in my first job out of college. We were having a brainstorming meeting. I shared an idea (I am pretty soft spoken in general, I do not have a loud voice) and no one heard it, as I started to repeat myself, one of my peers spoke over me and stole my idea. He repeated it word for word, as he could hear what I said clearly since he was sitting next to me.

Suddenly everyone thought it was the best idea ever and with in weeks, largely because of the idea, he got promoted because he was a "great strategist....." and I ended up reporting to him. Needless to say, I didn't really trust this guy.

In virtually every job I have had, men at similar levels have been paid more than their female peers with less or equivalent experience.

I'll be honest, after that incident early in my career, I made some big changes. Since I'll never be able to talk loud, I position myself next to the decision makers in large meetings. That way the important people can always hear me.

I also negotiate, negotiate, negotiate to make sure I am getting paid at the top end of the range, to eliminate any potential risk of female bias. Some people would call my negotiation techniques aggressive, which of course they never say to a man doing the same thing.

And lastly, if I am in the position of hiring, I reject any candidate that shows any hint of sexism, and explain the why to my team. It is important to put it out there. I remember one candidate that clearly showed signs of bias, either race or gender. And when I escalated my concerns up to senior management, they actually called him to inform him that I thought he was biased. (um weird!) He apologized, but it did not feel sincere, and he lied about other stuff so he stayed in the reject pile.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by tinman01

For every story like yours one can find stories that are the opposite.
Where I work we have a techinician system. For each pay grade demonstrated skills and performance are need to advance. You must then test and have a score of 85%. That is for men. Women need a score of 75%.
No harm no foul I aced my mechanical and Tech general tests. But what happens when a line in trouble needs advanced mechanical skills and the female promoted with a much lower score is in charge???
It falls to the the tech 3 male who grew up on the farm to fix the problem.

Until we level the field for everyone there will be cases of discrimination. You talk about health concerns. What is your reliability as compared to the male who was promoted? How many days have you missed as compared to him? As a team leader when I am looking at who I will put in the next leadership position reliability is a huge factor. I want technical skill too, but if tech B is always out on DB or FMLA I will look at someone I can depend on even if their skills are inferior. I can build their skills much easier than I can fix a persons reliability especially if they are riding the DB/ FMLA train. I am not for a minute suggesting yours or anyone elses medical problems are not valid. I am suggesting that I have a business to manage and I need leaders who will show up for work everyday.

I was in chemo for 6 months every other Friday. I worked from chemo on Friday (and spent the entire weekend doing work) and only missed a handful of days because of neuropathy pain throughout this time period - and by "missed a handful of days", I mean I didn't come into the office but did work from home (I figured my bosses would not appreciate it if I showed up with work either naked or screaming in pain from where my clothes touched my skin). I was probably MORE productive than the average person because I was so conscious of *not* seeming like dead weight. My bosses even yelled at me for bringing my laptop to the waiting room to do work from the waiting room - even though my shorter appointments were all scheduled so I'd only come in a little late to work or during my lunch break. I was just 4 months into my first job when I was diagnosed and I actually took less sick days than many of my coworkers who would stay home because they had a cold (to be fair, my boss made it strict policy that if people were sick with anything that could be even slightly contagious, they were not allowed to come into the office). Because I am an hourly employee, I did not get paid for a lot of the work that I did to make sure everything was running smoothly.

Because I was so productive, my bosses dramatically increased my role to take advantage of the skills I was learning. Perhaps I should not have taken on these new tasks without first securing a promotion and raise, but alas, I am early in my career and we are so understaffed that if I don't do it, there's no one else that CAN.

When I say I'm not leaving because of FMLA, I mean that if I relapse, I will need 4 more months of chemo (something like once a week or once every other week) before launching into a stem cell transplant which would be at least a month in the hospital, plus 4-6 months staying at home. That's not to say I can't work during this time period, but during the stem cell transplant recovery, I would need to work from home because I cannot be around people. I can't risk moving jobs, relapsing, and hoping that I'm not let go for needing the time off for my procedures. 95% of my job can be successfully done from home. The other 5% would require a little support from the office to get access to our database (which is not accessible remotely).

That still doesn't address the treatment of other women in the office. I recently found out that during the economy crash, one of my bosses offered to go to part time in an effort to save jobs (as well as spend more time with her teenage daughter). Now she works 3 days in the office and one from home - turns out, that one from home is essentially "volunteering" considering what her pay was before she went part time. She's only paid for 3 days a week - and originally only worked for 3 days a week. However, when her workload got too much, she was told she either worked 4 days a week (at the same pay) or lose her job. I do a significant amount of what she used to do.

Originally Posted by HiFi

So she tells you. Perhaps she has only so much to spend and has directed most of it not to you. If she really has no power to promote you than she is not the one you should be negotiating with.

My boss has absolutely no control of the budget, whatsoever. We're in a state of weird reorg (and have been since before I started) where we had a head of my team who was dedicated just to our role (which is how MOST universities operate). When she left, they didn't rehire and we were placed under the jurisdiction of another senior staff member (who is supposed to manage just the team heads). Promotions and raises are all handled by him, and unfortunately, he would not even make eye contact with me during my treatment -even during staff meetings where every member of the team gives individual updates. It is only recently that he has begun to acknowledge my existence. Because my role has morphed so far from what I was hired to do (namely on the social media front), this man does not actually know what I do or the level of technical capacity I have had to gain, despite all of the private meetings I have had with him to explain what it is that I do, how I am making the university money and "friend raising", and what quantitative measures I use to track my work. I have let him know that I believe I have proven that I am a productive, strong employee and that I deserve the acknowledgement as such, but he tells me that "Life isn't fair" - often referring back to his sister who spent the last year of her life on feeding tubes (he pulls this on my bosses as well). Meanwhile, his annual 2% raise that we ALL get is more than I'm asking for a raise to reflect my duties.

We've seen a huge turnover in the past year as people leave to find employment that will compensate them appropriately for the work that they do. Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of up and leaving right now without huge personal risk. It's just not something I am able to do.

[Bangolufsen]

Originally Posted by Neuling

That's a problem in most Western countries, despite emancipation etc. I have no idea why that is and why there are not more law suits fighting those conditions. I mean, when two people have the same jobs at the same company and still get paid differently based on their sexes, people should take to the courts and set examples.

This is absolutely not true. For the same job, and same level of production, men and women are paid the same otherwise no one would hire men. As a group women earn less than men because they take more time off (for kids, for example), and many take less demanding and less dangerous job. Women should stop complaining in the USA and appreciate that they have more rights than men. Also, they should pay their own way on everything. I have nothing to do with American women unless it's business related.

[NewbieHere]

I don't know but my kid was promoted to CEO of her company over her partner, actually they both agreed that she was the better person). He agreed to take the title of technical director. She is a boss of 3 white males. How about that?
Her business partner was her boss when she was working as a college intern. He followed her to this company. Left a job with health insurance.