America post collapse: what's next? (employment, health care, Amish, Obama)
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I'm not smart enough to know whether economic collapse is imminent, but a lot of smart people think it is - or it will be unless drastic measures are taken. All civilizations collapse at some point. Why should America be the exception?
America will not be the exception, but nobody can predict how and when. Our growth of government power, cost and control will eventually lead to an implosion. The result could be like Rome and Spain who lost all their world power. Or we could become like Britain who has just diminished quite a bit, but still remains a world leader.
The current rift will continue to expand and become exacerbated, since you have 50% of the people who are busting their asses working, and then the other 50% demanding that they get 90% of what the 50% have.
They'll get their just desserts.
Exactly. We are destined to play out the plot in Atlas Shrugged with similar results.
Quote:
Your national government exercises way too much control, which is exactly what the Framers of the Constitution did not want, and that is why they created a republic with a federal system of government.
Your salvation lies exclusively in the total restoration of the federal republic on which the US was founded under the Constitutional Government.
When you have restored the US to the way the founders intended it to be -- and they chose a federal republic for a specific reason....namely they were a helluva lot smarter and knowledgeable about things like geography and demographers than these twits are nowadays -- you will know, because it will be the States that have tax brackets of 10%-35% and not the federal government -- which would be collecting at most 3% taxes (perhaps based on income or a VAT).
Exactly. But this will never happen without a revolution. Politicians NEVER voluntarily give up power and control. So there will never be an evolution back to how the founding fathers established this country.
Of course since the ranks of the Conservative political field are filled by social conservatives, big government is necessary to maintain their Judeo-Christian social compact.
Or you could say it this way; Of course since the ranks of the Liberal political field are filled by fiscal liberals, big government is necessary to maintain their need to tell everyone how to live their lives and redistribute wealth.
I've been wondering lately, if we go ahead and elect Obama, that will likely speed up the collapse of the American way. Then perhaps we'll react properly as a nation and create a new and better reality that will be lasting and permanent.
If we elect Romney, he's probably just good enough to keep things moving along in the lousy way it has been the last 20 or so years, and this will not affect any positive change any sooner.
So the question really is: do we allow ourselves to quickly hit rock bottom by re-electing Obama and then begin meaningful change, or do we elect Romney and sustain our current lousy state just a bit longer?
That doesn't make sense. Look at the Reps that have been elected
Nixon - ended in disgrace
Reagan - used hostages to get his office and then tripled deficits
Bush1 - a mild extension of Reagan mostly harmless like Ford (except the back room deals he made)
Bush 2- gave us massive deficit increases and wiped our economy
So the track record isn't good, you can expect massive deficits - he tells you he is cutting the taxes on the rich, and increasing spending so it would make sense
On the Flip side -
Johnson wanted to end Vietnam but Nixon hurt those chances
Carter - had high inflation but also had high rates of return and people prospered, some think Reagan recovery came from what Carter had done
Clinton - great years in general
Obama - got the economy in the WORSE condition EVER and without help from the R's actually has improved unemployment, the stock market, housing starts, the auto industry, alternate industries, He basically has recovered much of the economy which was a monumental task ....
So why would anyone think a R would keep things going when they have damaged us so much in the past and have outlined plans to do more of the same? the logic of the R make no sense.
If Flip is president you can bet we will have record deficits and all of a sudden the R's will not be concerned about it any longer.... but the people will be left once again with a mess to clean up, or the need to change a system. Somehow seems the instability that would bring would make us prime for a dictator.
At that point, look at Weimar Germany. And those of you who are already retired, with nice pensions and no worries, note that tomorrow you could lose it all. And when retiree's savings are suddenly reduced to near zero, the house is worth nothing, the pensions have been legally nullified, and your Social Security check won't buy so much as loaf of bread, guess what your wonderful government will do?
It will present you with a bill for $40,000 for the first 6 months of your new property tax bill, and put your home up for auction when you cannot pay.
"A youthful generation set adrift from traditional moorings naturally gravitated to immorality. Marriage was no longer an economically secure arrangement. Consequently, the commercial sex industry bloomed, particularly in Berlin ... Seeking pleasure in activities that had formally been eschewed in favor of virtue became commonplace. Stefan Zwieg, a contemporary of Klaus Mann, summed up the Weimar mood thusly:
'It was an epoch of high ecstasy and ugly scheming, a singular mixture of unrest and fanaticism. Every extravagant idea that was not subject to regulation reaped a golden harvest: theosophy, occultism, yogism, and Paracelcism. Anything that gave hope of newer and greater thrills, anything in the way of narcotics, morphine, cocaine, heroin found a tremendous market; on the stage incest and parricide, in politics, communism and fascism constituted the most favored themes.'
... Fewer and fewer young people supported the Weimar system; they were often more concerned with drinking and dancing. Indeed, one of the unfortunate outcomes of the First World War was that many youths of 1920s Germany grew up without fathers."
Why is this in this subforum instead of the doomsday prepper forum? I mean we have a whole subforum just for people to circle jerk about the end of the world so why not use it?
I'm not smart enough to know whether economic collapse is imminent, but a lot of smart people think it is - or it will be unless drastic measures are taken. All civilizations collapse at some point. Why should America be the exception?
Let's suppose that in the very near future - say 2020 or sooner - America finds herself with a sharply divided population, without a political consensus of any kind, without a first world economy, without a meaningful Constitution, and without a federal government strong enough to hold the nation together.
When civilizations go bad, they go bad in different ways. Some turn to military dictators. Some turn to ideological fanaticism. Some dissolve and divide into perpetually warring factions. Some are overrun by foreign enemies. What's next for America?
When trying to discuss an American collapse, ask yourself these questions:
1. Will I still be able to eat 2500 unhealthy calories per day and maintain being 20 pounds overweight?
2. Will I still have cable or satellite TV?
3. Am I a complacent idiot?
If you answer yes to all these questions, then America cannot collapse.
Last edited by VTHokieFan; 10-20-2012 at 01:21 AM..
Why is this in this subforum instead of the doomsday prepper forum? I mean we have a whole subforum just for people to circle jerk about the end of the world so why not use it?
Beats the hell out of me, but you have to admit, the fear-mongering here is rather amusing.
Makes one wonder what these folks could do with a horror movie, given the chance.
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