Caucasian club in High School (holidays, good news, news, society)

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by tinasgt2005

Did I say anyone is stopping me? Are not these threads on the debating of certain issues? That is what I created it for. To get feedback on this issue. My son will create this club. It will take him a year to get a members list, bi-laws, constitution, and subject matter. I wanted to know how people felt about this. I knew what some people would think on the issue so I am not surprised

I'm for anything that challenges the system and PC or social taboos, so I say go for it, and don't let anyone use "racism" as a brick to silence you if racism is not your intention.

[Anchorless]

Originally Posted by bily4

I have never attended a meeting and honestly have never had a disire.

And there you go. My question is if groups of students want to get together to learn about their specific common cultural background and share experiences and discussions, and if anyone else interested can attend (but probably have no interest in it as you mention), why should anybody else care? I think it is a positive thing. If it crosses the line to being exclusive and not allowing others in, then that is a different discussion.

If you want to start a European American Club, knock yourself out. You can't call it a Caucasian Club because many Hispanics and people from other other races and places of origin are Caucasian, not just people from Europe. So unfortunately it would have to be a bit more specific.

And as far as I know nobody is saying you can't have an American Club and discuss different cultures every week and their migration to America and experiences every week. Sounds great. But unfortunately most kids don't care a whole lot about their own roots, let alone the roots of other people.

Once again, I agree.

I'd add that there are many people of European ancestry that do not have white skin color, and likewise (as you said), there are many people with lighter skin color that aren't of European ancestry.

Also, I think it comes down to a matter of identity. Most student organizations like these are places where people can go to help them discover their identities, be it cultural, ethnic, religious, or whatever. I do think there is a fundamental difference between how a minority identifies herself, opposed to how the majority does. It's not an exclusive proposition, mind you, but nevertheless I think the phenomenon exists.

Simply because a majority group tends to identify themselves in relation to each other - it's a club in which they belong, to say, and one in which they tend to make the rules, create the culture, and dominate the discussion.

A minority group tends to identify themselves contra the majority group, as the Other, or in opposition to the majority group. They are what the majority is not, so to speak. They hold fewer cards, get less of a say or less of a chance to write a particular culture or history. As such, the sense of belonging isn't as strong, because they're just different.

I think minority groups turn to each other to rediscover their own identities, to rediscover their own heritage and culture, to define who and what they are, as a group. This is often why you have an African American club, instead of a Caribbean American club, a Nigerian American club, an Ethiopian club, etc. They unite as a minority group as a source of identity qua the majority group.

But you can already see progress being made, because as each particular minority group can more and more of a foothold in American culture, and are allowed to contribute to the culture, to the history, and to heritage, you see less of a need to bond with people in simple terms - skin color, say - and you see more specific and less homogeneous groups. As was pointed out with Asian student groups - typically there is very little that bonds a Laotian with a Chinese person, a Korean with a Japanese. So they have their own groups that draw from their own unique heritage, much as an Irish or German American would. There is less a need to identify with "Asian" and more of an opportunity to identify as "Korean American."

The same is becoming more and more true with all groups. This also explains why there isn't a pressing need for white people to identify as Caucasian, but as German/Russian/Irish what have you. But as this country becomes more and more diversified, and white people begin holding less and less of the cultural pie, you do see people wanting to unite as Caucasian as a means of identifying themselves qua other groups. Which is what is happening here, I think.

And I think the same rings true not just of a race or ethnic heritage, but of religion, gender, sex, and any other way in which people identify themselves. Hell, when I was younger we had an "Alternative Sports" club simply because we needed members. As that club grew more and more popular we were able to dissolve it into a "Skateboarding club," a "Snowboarding club," a "Mountain Biking club," and so on.

I hope this helps explain for some of you.

[bily4]

I think as long as the title of your club reflects what the intention of the group is, go for it!

So if it is "European- American Club", talk about European American roots and immigration to the U.S., discrimination Irish and Italians faced at first here, etc.

If it is "Caucasian Club", then you have to include Northern Africa, India, parts of Asia as well, many Hispanics are considered Caucasian. Caucasian does not equal American of European Descent.

You want to have an "American Club" and talk different immigrant cultures each week, discuss America's place in the world, sounds very nice.

Just don't call it "White Club" - because that does not mean anything. There are "White" people from all over the world.

[Anchorless]

Originally Posted by tnbound2day

Here is what a 15 year old kid wanted to do at a high school in Oakley, CA, and then was ridiculed and called a racist so much that she had to transfer out of school because she felt very misunderstood and attacked:

I never said bigotry and misunderstanding doesn't happen; I did assert that it is by no means the norm when talking about these student organizations.

Originally Posted by tnbound2day

Besides that, who are you to say what is or what isn't relevant for their studies. Maybe a group would like to study the hardships of their ancestors in getting here, and living through poverty and hardships after they got here. My family on my father's side came over here dirt poor, a mixture of European backgrounds. They farmed for the food they ate, and often had to eat once a day in order to make food last through the winter. Maybe I'd like to study more of what they went through, what the specifics of their life an culture were and how they contrast to today's culture.

So start a student organization devoted to the history/culture/heritage of so and so.

1. I don't remember saying that I was opposed to this.
2. I don't see how this has anything to do with a) being Caucasian, or b) even being European American.

Originally Posted by tnbound2day

And as long as the group was inviting and welcoming to any other race or group that wanted to take part, frankly it is 100% completely irrelavant if they do want to study American history. The garbage that is prepackaged and spoonfed to American school students does not really cover very much. There is far more than any school textbook will ever cover, and there should be no problem with those who would like to look deeper into their roots.

Yeah, okay. So...?

What's you point again? And what does this have to do with other student organizations?

[Anchorless]

Originally Posted by tinasgt2005

And I would like to say that anyone who would give someone a bad Rep for having an opinion other than yours is chicken****. I have not been racist offensive or deragatory so why should I get a bad Rep. Hey Mod can you please let us know what the rules are for giving someone a Bad Rep?? I do not give a Bad Rep against anyone unless I attack them as a person.

I agree with this.

It's annoying when people red flag you for disagreement, or because they can't understand your argument.

[Anchorless]

Originally Posted by tinasgt2005

It has become common for "White" people to e accussed of discrimination anytime they aspeak angainst a person of another color or national orgin. Ie; immigration, OJ Simpson, Michael Vicks, Los Angeles riots. It is not because they are all just crimminals it is just ole Whitey being racist. I am not saying that these clubs are not educating their members on culture but I have culture in my background. I would love to know about my Scottish culture or my Indian culture or my German culture. Is that racist?

In re: to the bolded: You do walk a fine line whenever you speak "against" any other person because of their national or racial origin. The words you choose are important.

I think the point you're trying to make - that if a white person happens to think that what Michael Vick did was horrible, say, and people automatically assume there is a racial element involved - is a legitimate one. I do think there is often a kneejerk reaction to invoke the "race card," as it is often called, and this is often unnecessary.

However, this is the climate we've established. This is our history, and I frankly have no problem with the question being asked: "is there a racial element to this situation?" Because THAT QUESTION NEEDS TO BE ASKED, because it was a question that historically has not been asked.

I mean, you can't be afraid of the answer. In the Mike Vick situation we can ask the question, and through public discourse we can bear it out. I don't see the harm in asking the question, because I have faith in process of free and open discussion. It's better we are able to ask the question publicly, as unnecessary or irrelevant as it may seem to be, then to be afraid to ask that question, and to have to suppress it when in fact it may be germane.

And more often than not I think it is.

[tinasgt2005]

Originally Posted by Anchorless

Once again, I agree.

I'd add that there are many people of European ancestry that do not have white skin color, and likewise (as you said), there are many people with lighter skin color that aren't of European ancestry.

Also, I think it comes down to a matter of identity. Most student organizations like these are places where people can go to help them discover their identities, be it cultural, ethnic, religious, or whatever. I do think there is a fundamental difference between how a minority identifies herself, opposed to how the majority does. It's not an exclusive proposition, mind you, but nevertheless I think the phenomenon exists.

Simply because a majority group tends to identify themselves in relation to each other - it's a club in which they belong, to say, and one in which they tend to make the rules, create the culture, and dominate the discussion.

A minority group tends to identify themselves contra the majority group, as the Other, or in opposition to the majority group. They are what the majority is not, so to speak. They hold fewer cards, get less of a say or less of a chance to write a particular culture or history. As such, the sense of belonging isn't as strong, because they're just different.

I think minority groups turn to each other to rediscover their own identities, to rediscover their own heritage and culture, to define who and what they are, as a group. This is often why you have an African American club, instead of a Caribbean American club, a Nigerian American club, an Ethiopian club, etc. They unite as a minority group as a source of identity qua the majority group.

But you can already see progress being made, because as each particular minority group can more and more of a foothold in American culture, and are allowed to contribute to the culture, to the history, and to heritage, you see less of a need to bond with people in simple terms - skin color, say - and you see more specific and less homogeneous groups. As was pointed out with Asian student groups - typically there is very little that bonds a Laotian with a Chinese person, a Korean with a Japanese. So they have their own groups that draw from their own unique heritage, much as an Irish or German American would. There is less a need to identify with "Asian" and more of an opportunity to identify as "Korean American."

The same is becoming more and more true with all groups. This also explains why there isn't a pressing need for white people to identify as Caucasian, but as German/Russian/Irish what have you. But as this country becomes more and more diversified, and white people begin holding less and less of the cultural pie, you do see people wanting to unite as Caucasian as a means of identifying themselves qua other groups. Which is what is happening here, I think.

And I think the same rings true not just of a race or ethnic heritage, but of religion, gender, sex, and any other way in which people identify themselves. Hell, when I was younger we had an "Alternative Sports" club simply because we needed members. As that club grew more and more popular we were able to dissolve it into a "Skateboarding club," a "Snowboarding club," a "Mountain Biking club," and so on.

I hope this helps explain for some of you.

Thank you,
I sometimes have a hard time with words but you articulated it very well. It really does not have anything to do with segragation. It is a place that children,.and we have to remember that they are still children, can go and feel that they belong. It is not that my son or other students do not want to learn about other cultures but it is where they feel that they belong. Remember they are children still learning where they fit into this world. So many students do not like learning they go to socialize. If this club promotes education I am all for it.

[TXboomerang]

Originally Posted by Anchorless

So start a student organization devoted to the history/culture/heritage of so and so.

1. I don't remember saying that I was opposed to this.
2. I don't see how this has anything to do with a) being Caucasian, or b) even being European American.



Yeah, okay. So...?

What's you point again? And what does this have to do with other student organizations?

But I do challenge anyone to explain what that agenda would be.

I accepted your challenge and gave 2 examples of what the agenda would be. Looks pretty simple what my point was. I'll be happy to attempt to help you understand it further if you are still confused.

[Nirvana-Guy]

Originally Posted by tinasgt2005

My son is a senior in high school. One day last week the subject of cultural clubs came up in his history class. There is a hispanic club, african american club, and an asian club. Asked the teacher why they couldn't have a caucasian club. Of course the response from some of the other students ranged from, "Because it would racist", 'Yeah why can't we," Because my family were slaves and it would be racist." These were comments that kids in his class said. My question is Why can't he start one? Why is it okay for every other culture to celebrate and promote pride in their culture and ethinic group but anyone who is of the caucasian ethinic group are not aloud to because they are considered racist? We have raised our kids to be senitive to all cultures and ethinic groups. But my kids see the reverse discrimination when it come to clubs and celebrations. My son is going to try and start this club but it will take time. He believes that he should have the same rights as his fellow classmates. As long as the club promotes positive behavior and cultural diversity what harm is it?? I would like to hear what you all have to say. Please respond to this question

Is is okay to have a Caucasian Club in the school systems?

It should be ok, specially if caucasians are a minority in his school. In Central Florida, it would be perfectly fine as illegal aliens are totally taking over the schools and everywhere else. I bet in El Paso, TX there would be a need for a caucasian club as 80% of the population there is Mexican (and I bet pretty much all illegal too).

[Hawkeye48]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

I actually agree with the notion that we don't need a "white history month," since what is studied in school is basically European Western Civilization history.

I've never agreed with the notion that we shouldn't have a White History Month because so much of our history is European or White based. Fair is fair, and equality is equality is equality. If we have one we should have the other, and I honestly feel it's racist not to have one. And by not having one, we are saying racism is OK as long as the victims are White.

But since white Hispanics make up such a large portion of all hispanics in the US, how does that fit with the existence of "the white club"?

I'd say let the Hispanics, and everyone else for that matter, all join up without regard to their race or ethnicity. The purpose of a White, Caucasian, or European Club would be to celebrate and identify and appreciate White contributions to history and American culture.

So much of our history that's taught today has deteriorated into the "how did the White people screw over this race or that race version." The colonization of America and her history afterwards has deteriorated into how the Europeans destroyed the Native American culture and way of life. The expansion west has deteriorated into how White people took advantage of Chinese labor in the construction of the railroad, and I could go on and on for pages. And although there is some truth in saying that, there's also a lot to be said about presenting history in a manner that allows White children to take pride in their own race and it's accomplishments. A White or Caucasian or European Club would help accomplish that.

If people of other races want to join in let them. It would set a great example and just may result in White people taking a broader interest in other clubs as well.