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Did you know that a couple that each make 5cents more an hour than minimum wage do not qualify for any "social safety net" programs because their "income is too high" for the number of people? Maybe that's why people are having so many kids....
Where? The minimum wage differs from one state to another, and so do the eligibility criteria for public assistance. For that matter, public assistance programs differ from one state to another.
Norway and Sweden also have a VERY HIGH income tax rate too. I oppose the government paying for peoples housing, utilities, healthcare etc except in the most extreme of cases
Yeah so. And the people are very, very happy with their government services. It's all about perceived value. Most people are very happy to pay taxes, if they feel they are getting something in return.
I don't think someone should have to live in substandard housing just because they don't make enough money, or are in some way debilitated. Ditto with health care.
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My question is, do you want the government to also pay for YOUR childcare? It was YOUR decision to have a child (or children).
Why is compulsory education defined as K-12? Why the arbitrary cut off before the age 5 and after the age of 18? Why not 2? Why not 6 months? Why not 21?
Quality care and education is VITAL to our society. It's one of the most important domestic issues for our nation. You want people to work and be on their own feet but provide no solutions to care for their children while they work? That's a bit hypocritical.
A parent can't work if they have no means of putting their kid in care. That means they may have to depend on the state for other things, like housing, or food. That certainly doesn't "enable them" to do what you deem the right thing, to work for a living and lift themselves off their boot straps.
Early development in particular, sets up the stages of a child's entire academic care. A parent worried about their kid, because they have to put their kid in substandard care, worry about whether the caregiver is abusing their kid, or even that the kid is watching TV all day, not getting intellectual stimulation, or exercise and fresh air.
The problem with a lot of pseudo libertarian values, is they fail to see the BIG picture. Too cheap to spend a dime, so instead, they'll spend a dollar 20 years from now in terms of incarceration. Not very forward thinking at all.
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That decision resulted in responsibilities (IMO) including the raising (including care) of YOUR children. Frankly, and again IMO, childcare costs should be taken into consideration BEFORE deciding to bring a child into the world.
If that were the case, more than half the American population would never have kids. I'm not just talking about poor people either. With childcare (just childcare, not clothing diapers etc.), being over $13k a year, only the insanely wealthy would have children. Our population would slowly dwindle and their would be very few young people to support the elderly.
Besides, once their born, are you saying it's OK to throw them away because their parents were so 'irresponsible' to have them? Is that a symbol of American Family Values?
happymom you just summed it up in the absolute best way possible.
I was a poor kid, but i have seen so many like me squander oppurtunites, becsaue of whatever reason (alot of the time it was "too hard") and then the whine about how life/govt/schools/whitey screwed them over.
I feel no sympathy for them becasue they had bigger oppurtunities then i ever did
i made it. i have also seen some poeple just get dealt a bad hand at every turn...i do feel for those people. but alot of time as i have seen, the get up and try again...
Are you a billionaire? Do you think you'll ever be a billionaire?
Studies show that most people in America never get beyond the 1-2 tiers above or below the socio/economic class they were born in. That's a pretty sad statistic and evidence that our system is not working.
i am not willing to pay for it are you? i think everybody should have that oppurtunity for all those things...key word being OPPURTUNITY.
Well obviously there are few opportunities available. Otherwise, the statistics would not show, that most people never get more than 1-2 tiers above the class their were born into. That includes those with middle class jobs and incomes.
Opprotunity is enough for those dedicated enough to go for it.
Lets face it if you pay someone for staying home and not working you will always get a % that will do just that. Many have become masters of the system to maximize the benifits and dollars. This is also a fact.
Why the class envy? Why aren't you outraged about how the rich manipute the legal system for their benefit and rob you of a living wage. While middle class incomes have risen between 20-30% (different data says different things), CEO wages have risen by 300%. Where's your outrage?
Is it because you THINK (erroneously) that one day that billionaire CEO will be you? Well that stats about income mobility in America do not bear that out. So your sympathy for those poor rich folks is misplaced.
Why direct your anger at those without power who already have a hard life?
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Unemployment is less than 5% by most standards that = nonexistent. I honestly believe that we have way less poor than advertised. Politicians play with numbers to benefit their own agenda's.
First, I think our stats are inaccurate, and have been measured poorly for a long time. Secondly, our stats do not indicate people who have been downsized and failed to find new jobs within a short period of time. A lot have dropped out of the work force (so are no longer counted). Many have taken lesser jobs that don't use their skills (underemployed). Many of the "new jobs" were
1) created by the gov't (our traditional measures of the economy discuss private sector employment, which is a true measure of our economic well being, with gov't jobs being a bit artificial.)
2) many of the new jobs out there are lower paid jobs than the one's that were replace.
3) Finally, the new job growth has not even kept pace with the increase in population. If it were measured properly, it would be null or negative.
"Originally Posted by tinman01
I think this is the majority of the case, some people dont desire a whole lot more in life"
This is referring to people with low ambition, and I believe the lack of motivation is based on a very low self esteem.
This problem is visible in the US and UK and possibly elsewhere too, why is it that countries that comprehend psychological problems can find no answer to it?
Structural deficiencies in society of this sort lead to apathy, something policy makers are all too aware of. Would it be reasonable to lay the blame at the feet of the policy makers?
Are you a billionaire? Do you think you'll ever be a billionaire?
Studies show that most people in America never get beyond the 1-2 tiers above or below the socio/economic class they were born in. That's a pretty sad statistic and evidence that our system is not working.
no i am not a billionaire, and it is possible if i play my cards right, if i dont then i didnt play well enough..simple as that
1-2 tiers above. how doe sthat make the system broken...that isnt too shabby in my opinion. not everyone can be rich...simple fact
on the same note people have become rich doing that.
its how the world works...
that is why i am not bitter towards rich people fo rhaving money weather or not they were born into it or not, and i ahev never asked for anybody to prop me up so i could have a better living...i did it myself.
should taxation be fair across the board...yes, is it irritatin that rich people and CEO's make themslevs a profit off everybody else yes...is it irritaing when some poor person thinks car jacking me is the way to go...yes
but i have a choice with the rich folks on weather they get my money or not...
"Originally Posted by tinman01
I think this is the majority of the case, some people dont desire a whole lot more in life"
This is referring to people with low ambition, and I believe the lack of motivation is based on a very low self esteem.
This problem is visible in the US and UK and possibly elsewhere too, why is it that countries that comprehend psychological problems can find no answer to it?
Structural deficiencies in society of this sort lead to apathy, something policy makers are all too aware of. Would it be reasonable to lay the blame at the feet of the policy makers?
Exactly....
For the hard of hearing (reading), low self-esteem = low ambition. I'm sick of people pointing fingers and blaming when it comes to this issue. If you've had a life of being kicked around, bullied and abused, ambition isn't going to be there.
We need people to pick our crops and make our beds in hotels. We need people to work in fast-food restaurants and we need gardeners. But that doesn't mean we can't pay them a living wage. By not paying a living wage to our most unfortunate in society we are actually choosing to incur and pay other more expensive costs.
If we paid people a decent wage a lot of other problems we have in society would be greatly curtailed. How much would we save on welfare, section 8 housing, and food stamps if we paid a decent wage? How much criminal activity would disappear, and how much would we save on operating our jails, prisons and courts? How much drug abuse could be curtailed?
By allowing the rich to unfairly take advantage of and profit off of the poor we as a nation are keeping a boot on the neck of many who are trying to actually lift themselves up by the bootstraps and make a better life for themselves and their families. By embracing policies that make it extremely difficult for poor people to lift themselves up out of the cycle of poverty, we are creating a permanent underclass that's not only sucking up social welfare benefits and becoming a burden on society, but it fosters a situation that encourages drug abuse, violent crime, and property crime. Which results in a huge unnecessary financial burden on society. Poverty breeds crime and drug abuse. Crime and drug abuse results in a huge criminal justice system that is extremely expensive to operate. The cost of incarcerating one single prisoner costs the state $20,000 to $30,000 a year depending on the area of the country it's located in. Drugs also cost the taxpayer huge amounts of money as well. Drug abuse frequently results in extremely violent crime, and expensive prison sentences, or at the very least expensive drug rehabilitation programs.
By not paying a living wage we are exasperating the situation. The key is opportunity, education, and fair employment policies. It's true what they say, it's much cheaper to send someone to college than it is to send them to prison. Does that mean we have to pay everyone $25 an hour? Of course not. But we certainly can do a lot better than we are doing right now.
In addition, I don't want to turn this into an immigration debate, but there is one point that needs to be addressed. It's extremely difficult to lift America's underclass up out of the cycle of poverty when we are sitting by watching a million plus extremely poor people pour across our border every single year. The first step in ending poverty in America is securing our border and enforcing our labor laws.
There is much truth to your very good post. The truth sometimes hurts, especially some people. I hope your post is read by all. Thank you.
but i have a choice with the rich folks on weather they get my money or not...
Not really, unless you avoid all mass-produced goods, chain stores, and car ownerships.
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