How I Lost Faith in the "Pro-Life" Movement (activist, solution)

[icametodropbombs]

Originally Posted by Swtmarie

So you honestly think that a women who was raped, got pregnant, and then had an abortion...feels like she has taken back control?? Is it going to erase the pain, embarrassment, and humiliation of the rape??

I can't say if I would want an abortion after being raped because I've never been raped nor have I ever had an abortion; but I have heard stories of women traumatized by rape, and of women traumatized by having an abortion; so I don't know if it's one's place to say that one traumatizing event followed back-to-back by another one is necessarily the best choice, unless they've lived through that.

It's not about "taking back control", it's about the balance of power.

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

Yes. People do forget history. Or don't know it.

There were PLENTY of unwanted pregnancies before the pill. And before Roe vs. Wade many of those pregnancies were terminated by back-alley abortions.

It's the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about. Or are ignorant of. Yes, some people waited. But women did have unwanted pregnancies and they were getting unsafe abortions performed under conditions you wouldn't subject your dog to.

Or, in cases like my mother, her husband beat her until she miscarried at 6 months pregnant. He didn't want a child.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by jjrose

Or, in cases like my mother, her husband beat her until she miscarried at 6 months pregnant. He didn't want a child.

I agree with this.

Also people don't remember or know that many women will ask someone to strike her in the abdomen or even throw herself down the stairs or attempt suicide in order to abort an unwanted pregnancy.

The blog post was very informational and I hope those who are against birth control in particular pay attention to the author's information regarding the fact that widespread use of birth control limits the amount of abortions performed, simple as that.

Also that many "pro-lifers" are more interested in how a woman became pregnant in regards to abortion. The situation of rape is always interesting to me. Since she didn't chose to become pregnant, we should "help" her by letting her have an abortion. But if she wanted to have sex, like a normal woman, we should punish her by refusing her access to abortion. You are just trying to control how people have sex in that respect, not "saving unborn babies" as any "unborn baby" should fit your "saving" goal if that were teh case.

I thought it was a great idea one of the commenters stated who was anti-abortion. He/she stated that they donated money to PP for a fund for low income men to get free vasectomies and that people in the community also donated and it became a successful program. More "pro-lifers" should do this. Give your money to support your cause in a way that will actually prevent pregnancies instead of trying to prevent people from having sex in the first place. You could even donate money to give low income women tubal ligations who may make too much money for Medicaid and decide they want a permanent solution to preventing unwanted pregnancies. I'm sure it would be a success. But I doubt many will do this because they are more against sex in general than "saving unborn babies."

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Does the term "people" to you, ever apply to the baby in the womb? Just asking.

The term "people" applies to actual living, breathing people who are able to do the most basic things on their own. Things like breath, take a dump, ingest food, etc... At some point when a fetus is able to do those basic things then it becomes a human but, no, a glob of cells no more viable than the millions you lose every time you wash your hands is not a human.

Clear enough?

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by janelle144

And that is why we have an epidemic of unwanted pregnancy.

You just love to lie; either that or you are completely uninformed to the point of being clueless. Teen birth rates are at an all time record low bar none. There simply is no "epidemic of unwanted pregnancies". Rates have NEVER been lower.

[Konraden]

This person reminds me a lot of me. Entered college as a conservative with her family beliefs, discovered how to think critically, and came out the other end a dirty liberal--at least in this case.

The article was absolutely brilliant, well laid out, and sourced.

Her conclusion sums out the pro-life movement rather well.

It’s not about babies. It’s about controlling women. It’s about making sure they have consequences for having unapproved sex.

[Mylläri]

Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09

There is no foolproof, failsafe method. Contraceptives and abstinence, in theory, both can be effective.

Abstinence IN THEORY can be effective?

So if I hand you a loaded gun and you don't pull the trigger, in the theory the bullet would or wouldn't come out according to you?

Contraceptives decrease rates of unplanned pregnancy,

If you don't plan on getting pregnant you should refrain from sexual intercourse, its called abstinence.

Further, women have had abortions throughout the century, legal or illegal, pill or before pill. This will continue as well, even if all contraceptives were outlawed and abortion was illegal. Are you insinuating that you would like to see contraceptives out of the picture as well? If so, how will this prevent pregnancies and abortion? Please elaborate

I would like to eliminate contraception and abortion, abstinence is the only 100% proven way to prevent pregnancy.

A rational compromise on this matter is what is needed, religious beliefs aside, taking into consideration that both abstinence and contraceptives both have their flaws.

Please describe the alleged flaws of abstinence.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

If a society is going to ban abortion it should be across-the-board pro life. NO wars (including wars on the poor, the elderly, and the young), no death penalty for crime, no euthanizing of people or animals for any reason. We don't have the guts to do that, so we should not have the right to pick and choose our pro life platforms.

I am 100% for everything you've stated.

Originally Posted by OICU812

These discussions usually focus on the extreme ends of the discussion, and both are equally absurd.

I'd say 90% of us do draw a mental line in the sand, so to speak, for when we think that embryo is actually a human baby,

An embryo is in a stage of human development, a stage we were both at during one time in our human development. Are we any less human because we had to develop just as every other human to have ever existed had to?

Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09

Contraceptives and abstinence are flawed because there are scenarios in which both end up not working and then result in a pregnancy. However, you're only addressing one half of this piece.

Describe a scenario in which abstinence will not prevent a pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

Free country means freedom to make your own decisions.

Thats about what it boils down to. Those that are "pro life" consider a fetus a baby. Thats their right, and its why few of them change their position.

The notion that a human being in the developmental stage of being a fetus is not a human did not even come about until the contraception and abortion industry manufactured it to serve their own purposes.

No one wants abortion used as birth control of healthy fetuses, but to try and restrict it just gets way to complicated

This implies that abortion was always acceptable and legal and now an entity such as the pro-life movement is seeking to undo that. The history of the subject shows that the matter became complicated because contraception and abortion were legalized and heavily proliferated.

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

No, every single person I know, even my grand parents had premarital sex.

Abstinence only doesn't work. You can teach you can wait, but you should also teach the alternatives. I plan on getting my daughter an iud as soon as possible. They are working on a birth control pill for men now. If its ready, my son will be on it, but he'll know what condoms are and how to use them when he is 12.

Do you mean abstinence itself or abstinence based education? I believe you're referring to education and if there is a problem in which your children aren't being educated properly it is the parent's responsibility to make sure they are properly informed. We cannot control their behavior of course but to suggest that a contraceptive mentality is the answer is flawed.

Also, I think you should look into all the IUD lawsuits that are out there as well as the damaging effects of any and all forms of male and female contraception. If you don't want your kids getting pregnant than please make a better effort to educate them that abstinence is the only way.

Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09

Natural family planning is not fail proof, that's my point. In those situations, what happens when someone accidentally has an 'oops' and gets pregnant?

From the NFP site:
-- Systematic NFP. This is a system that uses a woman’s signs of fertility to determine the fertile and infertile times of her cycle. (The site says you can have sex during infertile times; gauging this, though, is not fool proof).
-- Couples seeking to avoid pregnancy practice chaste abstinence during the fertile time of her cycle. (Again, this is only effective in theory, not always practice).

Agreed, a lot of people can't and won't abstain--you can use the Roman Catholic Church clergy as a great example of the inability to practice what is preached--what do you do then? "No help out there" means you'll end up with unintended pregnancy and abortion. If the whole goal is to 'save life,' there comes a point when you have to get to a rational compromise--it will save more lives, and reduce abortions, in the process.

Lastly, abstinence only education, (outside of the Church), in schools, is not as effective as comprehensive sex education and expanded access to contraceptive; states that only provide abstinence-only education have higher rates of teenage pregnancy and abortion. Abortion rates plummet with free birth control

Your point about NFP goes to show that the life-giving power of sexual intercourse simply cannot be defeated. If one engages in sexual intercourse a likely result is pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Annie53

Yes, women do die today from abortions......in countries where it is illegal.

Nice that you want American women to join them.

So no one dies if abortion is legal?

You're going to end up on my iGnore List like Anus...

Originally Posted by Swtmarie

First of all, you can believe in the importance of sex education and birth control and still be Pro-Life. I am not about to call myself Pro-choice just because some Pro-Lifer's go to the extreme of pushing abstinence.

Honestly, How about pushing Pro-Responsibility?? Be responsible enough to use protection....Be responsible enough to know how to use protection correctly...Be responsible enough to understand that you could get pregnant...Be responsible enough to take responsibility if it does happen.

When you say "use protection" you're referring to contraception, call it what it is please. You're attempting to defeat the life-giving purpose of sexual intercourse which like you correctly refer to is folly more often than not.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Konraden

This person reminds me a lot of me. Entered college as a conservative with her family beliefs, discovered how to think critically, and came out the other end a dirty liberal--at least in this case.

The article was absolutely brilliant, well laid out, and sourced.

Her conclusion sums out the pro-life movement rather well.

It’s not about babies. It’s about controlling women. It’s about making sure they have consequences for having unapproved sex.

Unapproved sex? What is that? Here's a consequence you both seem to neglect when you "think critically" when you engage in sexual intercourse, no matter if you use contraception or not, a likely result is pregnancy. I didn't even need to go to college to come to that conclusion, perhaps it was because I wasn't influenced in college by liberal-minded people who would lead me astray from this obvious and irrefutable truth.

[stargazzer]

This society isn't even in a position or ready to talk about abortion , the pill, SSM. Theres nothing to work with. The porn style mentality "and full access to anything and everything on line to youngsters under 16 needs to go. If not its a waste of time. Its clearly a brainwashed society away from individualism. There is no individual when people do, behave and think as they are told and become robots to the system. Thats all a leader should be focused on, and all thats heard from R-R from what I understand, guiding the people toward a decent healthy meaningful existence.

[Swtmarie]

When you say "use protection" you're referring to contraception, call it what it is please. You're attempting to defeat the life-giving purpose of sexual intercourse which like you correctly refer to is folly more often than not.[/quote]


Yea ok, it's not like you didn't know what I was talking about. Also, I DID NOT say that using contraception is folly more times than not. Obviously you don't look at the statistics for failure rates of contraceptives, and the failure rate increases when not used properly, but it's not "more times than not" like YOU claim.

And "defeat the life-giving purpose" of sexual intercourse?? I am assuming this is religious based? You think people should only have sex if they want a child, they shouldn't have sex for fun?...What, even if they are married? Is that your place to say? You're bringing up a whole different topic.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Mylläri

Abstinence IN THEORY can be effective?

So if I hand you a loaded gun and you don't pull the trigger, in the theory the bullet would or wouldn't come out according to you?



If you don't plan on getting pregnant you should refrain from sexual intercourse, its called abstinence.



I would like to eliminate contraception and abortion, abstinence is the only 100% proven way to prevent pregnancy.



Please describe the alleged flaws of abstinence.



I am 100% for everything you've stated.



An embryo is in a stage of human development, a stage we were both at during one time in our human development. Are we any less human because we had to develop just as every other human to have ever existed had to?



Describe a scenario in which abstinence will not prevent a pregnancy.



The notion that a human being in the developmental stage of being a fetus is not a human did not even come about until the contraception and abortion industry manufactured it to serve their own purposes.



This implies that abortion was always acceptable and legal and now an entity such as the pro-life movement is seeking to undo that. The history of the subject shows that the matter became complicated because contraception and abortion were legalized and heavily proliferated.



Do you mean abstinence itself or abstinence based education? I believe you're referring to education and if there is a problem in which your children aren't being educated properly it is the parent's responsibility to make sure they are properly informed. We cannot control their behavior of course but to suggest that a contraceptive mentality is the answer is flawed.

Also, I think you should look into all the IUD lawsuits that are out there as well as the damaging effects of any and all forms of male and female contraception. If you don't want your kids getting pregnant than please make a better effort to educate them that abstinence is the only way.



Your point about NFP goes to show that the life-giving power of sexual intercourse simply cannot be defeated. If one engages in sexual intercourse a likely result is pregnancy.



So no one dies if abortion is legal?

You're going to end up on my iGnore List like Anus...



When you say "use protection" you're referring to contraception, call it what it is please. You're attempting to defeat the life-giving purpose of sexual intercourse which like you correctly refer to is folly more often than not.

Unapproved sex? What is that? Here's a consequence you both seem to neglect when you "think critically" when you engage in sexual intercourse, no matter if you use contraception or not, a likely result is pregnancy. I didn't even need to go to college to come to that conclusion, perhaps it was because I wasn't influenced in college by liberal-minded people who would lead me astray from this obvious and irrefutable truth.

So basically you are more concerned that people are having sex than in preventing abortions. That is the gist of the OP blogger and is what I gather from your responses. You want people to "think crtically" you are not concerned with stopping abortions.