Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Really? Is that what it costs the taxpayer to fund housing, food stamps, medical, education, free school breakfast and lunch for millions of people? No wonder those with their hand out think the taxpayer should be giving them more.
Should we subsidize and enable those who want to make welfare a way of life?
Want to make??? LOL I think you mean those who HAVE made welfare a way of life and pass it on from generation to generation. Or those that figured out that government will reward them with more income than what they would have if they worked? Why bust your ass working to pay $700 rent for a one bedroom apartment when government will pay $1,500 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a complex with a pool?
Anyone who feels that they should not pay taxes should be living off the grid and not be utilizing any publicly owned infrastructure, parks and recreational facilities or public services including the judicial system. If you forfeit the use of these things, you can probably not appear to be an idiot in refusing to pay your share of taxes.
Anyone who feels that they should not pay taxes should be living off the grid and not be utilizing any publicly owned infrastructure, parks and recreational facilities or public services including the judicial system. If you forfeit the use of these things, you can probably not appear to be an idiot in refusing to pay your share of taxes.
I agree. EVERYONE! should pay federal taxes. Everyone. And if you don't pay taxes get off my roads.
Oh, not more of this "taxes are theft" nonsense. There are collective responsibilities which simply must be dealt with and to do that you need money. Also, yes, attempting to shirk your civic duties, including paying your taxes, makes you both selfish and a morally inferior person.
No, trying to justify a government that confiscates a huge portion of the working class's paychecks, in order feed itself, Big Business and the ultra-wealthy, makes YOU selfish and immoral--as well as beyond gullible, and uneducated as to the almost unimaginable extent of government overspending and the economic harm of Washington's insane policies.
Do you REALLY think the trillions spent by Washington every year (and the ever-increasing $17 trillion + national debt) are necessary to keep the nation running--and not a danger to the survival of the nation? You really think that all 2.2 MILLION government workers at the federal level alone are all doing things that help the nation? Do you think it is sane to force the lowly American working class to fund a World Police Military--larger than all the other militaries of the world put together?
CHALLENGE TO LIBERALS: Take a look at a list of the thousands of federal agencies and departments here A-Z Index of U.S. Government Departments and Agencies (A) | USA.gov and ask yourself how many are REALLY necessary for the good of America, let alone the unfathomable monies spent by each. For example, how exactly do American taxpayers benefit from the African Development Foundation (USADF), which provides grants of up to $250,000 to community groups and enterprises in Africa? US African Development Foundation -- Fostering Hope, Growth, and Goodwill in Africa Or the Arctic Research Commission? Or the Agricultural Marketing Service? Bureau of Transportation Statistics? Energy Information Administration? European Command (aside from the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines)? Commission on International Religious Freedom? Truth is, there are thousands of departments in Washington spending the money of the American taxpayer and NOBODY HAS A CLUE what they are all doing. The average American wouldn't even notice (except for being much wealthier) if the federal government was shut down forever; since it doesn't do the one thing it should do: defend the borders. You can't even say the national parks are a benefit of federal government--they would much cheaper and be far better run by private concessionaires.
The collective responsibilities of the nation were fully funded by the government set up by the Founding Fathers--without ANY federal income tax. Defending the nation and controlling the borders is ALL that the federal level is supposed to do, and trade levies and tariffs are more than adequate to fund it. The local and state levels of government were the ones who actually provided the services that the population needed, and it was the States that held political power. They could not become despotic because people could move, and the amount of money confiscated across the nation was divided by the number of states, so that the level of corruption, graft and waste was somewhat limited. We had the "perfect" government, designed by geniuses who understood history and knew that only by limiting the power of government confiscation could we have a free citizenry and an affordable (stable) government.
Despite all the Founding Fathers did to protect us from the growth of Big Government, in 1913 our corrupt leaders overthrew the Constitutional prohibition on income tax, so that we could get emeshed in WWI halfway across the world. Then came WWII and it was all over for the working class--withholding from paychecks was instituted, and the working class was now on the financial hook for a gigantic federal Big Government and Military Industrial Complex. While paying for WWII and all those debts, politicians managed to confiscate a huge percentage of the average worker's wages. Then the war was over and the debts were paid. At that time a RESPONSIBLE government would have brought the tax burden on the average citizen back to the pre-war level--the level that comfortably ran the nation before the war. But there is no such thing as a responsible government. There are only affordable governments constrained by Constitutional prohibitions on income tax, and cancerous empire Big Governments that never stop confiscating and spending until they are overthrown.
Let's just move on and accept that the new post-WWII tax burden was here to stay, because we now had a Big Government and a Military-Industrial Complex to support. Was Big Government satisfied? Of course not--Big Government is NEVER satisfied. Government spending increased with population growth (of course), but on top of that radically increased the amount of spending per household. Just from 1965 to 2012, the rate of government spending per household almost tripled ($11,900 to $30,015) Federal Spending per Household Is Skyrocketing. In other words, between 1965 and 2012 Big Government spent THREE TIMES as much as was needed to pay for the post--WWII Big Government + Military Industrial Complex.
Today our federal government spends MORE per household than the nation's median income--in other words it would take over 100% confiscation of everyone's income each year to pay for Washington's annual spending--ignoring the $17 trillion debt, the debt of state and local governments, the unsupportable pensions of those millions of government workers, and all the future costs that the Baby Boomer already paid government for. The level of overspending has resulted in Washington devaluing the currency as quickly as possible, and keeping interest rates artificially at zero for decades--meaning that almost nobody can save enough to retire on, even if they still have jobs.
Despite the fact that conservatives outnumber liberals two to one in the American population, the media continues to push the illusion that there is an equal split--that half the population WANTS Socialism, zero upward mobility, and a Government that confiscates your earnings and then dribbles them back as it sees fit. Despite being supported by less than 1/3 of the population (the least productive 1/3), Big Government continues to race down the far-left path to totalitarian Socialism, where the tiny elite in Big Government and Big Business collude to keep the working class poor and dependent.
Anyone who feels that they should not pay taxes should be living off the grid and not be utilizing any publicly owned infrastructure, parks and recreational facilities or public services including the judicial system. If you forfeit the use of these things, you can probably not appear to be an idiot in refusing to pay your share of taxes.
There are so many levels of taxation integrated into every possible variable that we all pay a huge percentage of our income to government, no matter what. That doesn't mean that things like income tax are justified, on the theory that government must be paid back for a prior investment. For instance, the federal government built the interstates--but those bonds were paid off long ago with the taxes then in place. Today the money you pay in taxes does not go to some productive investment, but rather to feed the gigantic overgrown bureaucracy that seeks to micromanage the tiniest detail of each citizen's life. In effect, we continue to pay heavily for the very thing that is destroying our economy and our nation--a Big Government that serves only the ultra-rich and Big Business, but is so insanely irresponsible and corrupt that its policies doom the nation itself.
A person can pay no federal income tax, but when he actually uses ANY of these things he will be paying for them at the same time. Take electricity: you pay for your electricity use, as well as the capital costs of providing the service, and on top of that you also pay taxes to local, state and federal levels (even though they did not expend any money to provide the electricity). The roads are supported by heavy gas taxes. Property taxes force you to pay local and state government twice a year, even if they provide you with virtually no services (no trash pickup, volunteer fire dept, no kids to go to school). Sales taxes are added whenever you buy anything.
In short, government bleeds the citizen dry in every conceivable way, and many ways that are inconceivable. Our government has grown insanely large, and our working class has declined in both numbers and wealth, and liberals continue to argue that these things can and should continue. But the fact is, Big Government is destructive to the average American, and the nation itself. To try and minimize the amount of money you send to Washington is not just the only sane thing to do, but it is in the best interests of the nation.
"Hierarchies do not act. Hierarchies are relations, unlike a person or a machine or anything else that can act. For example, statists routinely argue that without government we can’t do anything, that governments are needed to build roads, stop criminals, and so on. This is patently false: all societies, whether statist or not, have done these things. But most importantly, it is individuals who do these things, not hierarchies. You don’t need a government to build a road, you need engineers and road builders, and raw materials. A “government” is just a set of relations between some people who want to rule (and their constant in-fighting) and the rest of us who are their subjects."
"This mindset can be studied like an exotic species. To study it, realize what the mind needs and do not threaten it. It will soon be unable to solve problems without considering more than one solution. You will learn how the mind works and what its deficiencies are. There is no need to fear becoming bureaucratic by exposure any more than the bureaucrat will become like you, but one needs to be able to cover up reactions to its more outrageous rules and proclamations as it senses agnostics to its control. It does not debate." Understanding the bureaucratic mind
Last edited by Hyperthetic; 12-03-2013 at 01:38 AM..
There are so many levels of taxation integrated into every possible variable that we all pay a huge percentage of our income to government, no matter what. That doesn't mean that things like income tax are justified, on the theory that government must be paid back for a prior investment. For instance, the federal government built the interstates--but those bonds were paid off long ago with the taxes then in place. Today the money you pay in taxes does not go to some productive investment, but rather to feed the gigantic overgrown bureaucracy that seeks to micromanage the tiniest detail of each citizen's life. In effect, we continue to pay heavily for the very thing that is destroying our economy and our nation--a Big Government that serves only the ultra-rich and Big Business, but is so insanely irresponsible and corrupt that its policies doom the nation itself.
A person can pay no federal income tax, but when he actually uses ANY of these things he will be paying for them at the same time. Take electricity: you pay for your electricity use, as well as the capital costs of providing the service, and on top of that you also pay taxes to local, state and federal levels (even though they did not expend any money to provide the electricity). The roads are supported by heavy gas taxes. Property taxes force you to pay local and state government twice a year, even if they provide you with virtually no services (no trash pickup, volunteer fire dept, no kids to go to school). Sales taxes are added whenever you buy anything.
In short, government bleeds the citizen dry in every conceivable way, and many ways that are inconceivable. Our government has grown insanely large, and our working class has declined in both numbers and wealth, and liberals continue to argue that these things can and should continue. But the fact is, Big Government is destructive to the average American, and the nation itself. To try and minimize the amount of money you send to Washington is not just the only sane thing to do, but it is in the best interests of the nation.
The unacceptable government spending that immediately comes to mind is support of the actual welfare kings and queens of the farm subsidies and the militray industrial complex. I have no issue with supporting education and building of new and maintenance of existing infrastructure. I have no problem with my tax dollars going to social programs...as one never knows when they might be in need of them as life can turn on a dime and contributing to these progrmas is what living in a functional and civilized society is all about. I also have a huge problem paying Congressional do nothings a hefty salary as they take more vacation days than they have hair on their head and refuse to pass legislation that would help rebuild the middle class and give the poor a leg up.
Want to make??? LOL I think you mean those who HAVE made welfare a way of life and pass it on from generation to generation. Or those that figured out that government will reward them with more income than what they would have if they worked? Why bust your ass working to pay $700 rent for a one bedroom apartment when government will pay $1,500 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a complex with a pool?
Please educate me if I am wrong ... but how common is that in this day and age?
I mean, I'm a landlord and I was asked if I would be willing to accept Section 8 clients ... the wait in my county is something like 10 years for an applicant to get a Section 8 apartment, and even then the housing isn't free - they'll kick in $500 on a $900 apartment. From my experience the buildings that will accept Section 8 are always ugly run down very undesirable places to live that just barely conforms to building codes.
So I guess my point is: if you think some "Welfare Queen" is enjoying cocktails on the terrace of her ocean front Miami Beach condo on your dime I think you are very mistaken.
You would not want to live in Section 8 housing ... believe me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
