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Old 11-01-2012, 04:48 PM
 
1,407 posts, read 634,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostInHouston View Post
It's a part of the female body until birth.
Way to skip the question
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Following the logic displayed in this thread:

~ Family members who assist loved ones committing suicide are murderers

~ Members of the military who kill someone are murderers

~ Surgeons who have patients die under the knife are murderers

~ Policemen who kill someone in the line of duty are murderers

~ God is a murderer when people die in natural disasters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Murder is not stopping a beating heart. If you kill someone in self-defense it is not murder, even though you have stopped a beating heart. If you kill someone as a soldier during a war, you are stopping a beating heart, yet it is not murder. Murder is only the unlawful taking of another human life. Since abortion is legal, it is not murder. Anyone who cannot grasp that very simple concept is mentally defective.
This was already answered.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,890 posts, read 18,840,878 times
Reputation: 8584
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
Ceased innocent life is murder unless from natural causes.
What is life? Pretty sure cows are innocent lives by most definitions, I like hamburgers though.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:52 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 15,781,804 times
Reputation: 7607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
The OP used the language "against ones will".

A person who serves in a combat zone willing puts themselves at risk for the cause/mission for which they are fighting.

Unless intentional - the surgeons action would be manslaughter.

Some people commit suicide by cop.

God by definition can't murder - he is God. Murder is committed by people.
Did the person being killed by someone else agree to it?

Did the person who died under the knife agree to die?

Since god shows all the traits of human beings why can't he be a murderer?

The logic is an abortion is against the fetuses will, how is that different than what I said above?

MURDER: the act of killing anyone that didn't want to die...

When god created the flood and killed millions, that wasn't murder? What do you call it?
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:57 PM
 
1,076 posts, read 1,306,670 times
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Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a person with malice aforethought. I find the "unlawful" part interesting, as that implies that all it takes to redefine what is considered murder is to change our laws. Thus, previous posters are correct when they say that abortion isn't murder since it is legal. However, if the laws were changed then it could be defined as murder. But then, there are a lot of things that are legal that aren't necessarily right.

I don't think the stopping of a beating heart is the key. What about an unborn child whose heart is not yet developed? It is still alive (cells are multiplying) and human, so killing it with premeditation would meet most of the definition of manslaughter at least - minus the "unlawful" part.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:06 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,751,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV8n View Post
Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a person with malice aforethought. I find the "unlawful" part interesting, as that implies that all it takes to redefine what is considered murder is to change our laws.
It's because Murder is a legal charge. It is literally defined by law, not law by it.

Quote:
Thus, previous posters are correct when they say that abortion isn't murder since it is legal. However, if the laws were changed then it could be defined as murder. But then, there are a lot of things that are legal that aren't necessarily right.
Undoubtedly, but I wouldn't consider abortion amongst that category.

Quote:
I don't think the stopping of a beating heart is the key. What about an unborn child whose heart is not yet developed? It is still alive (cells are multiplying) and human, so killing it with premeditation would meet most of the definition of manslaughter at least - minus the "unlawful" part.
Want to know what abortion is? The alternative for a lot of people in a difficult position, including the unborn child. And it isn't my right to say who should and should not make that choice.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:44 PM
 
488 posts, read 309,828 times
Reputation: 237
Murder is as natural as eating, sleeping, breathing, elimination of bodily waste, loving, hating and oh so much more in the human realm of life. If it were not natural, it would not occur.

Personally, I see abortion as murder. But again, committing murder is a natural fact of humanity no matter the situation it is done in. The old conglomeration of value judgments seem to be out of place regarding this new world, so the friction between pro(s)-choice/life rages... and there is no winner, no 'right' side to the quandry. Women could still rid themselves of the unwanted parasite within and to have authority decide a punishment for that is a retroactive idiocy. Women are not chattel- men (& women, too!) have seen fit to send many people to their deaths for whatever grubby reason.

Honestly, both sides have truth behind them, but ultimately it comes down to self-responsibility & alot of emotional considerations. But bringing up murder as a defense against abortion is an unsound direction to come in from when judging human affairs... and hypocritical. Primal emotions are such a devisive device when arguing a point, no?

Emotional responses vis-a-vis abortion is a thread more about the tolerances concerning humans and their ability to be honest with themselves... ugh.

Last edited by TheEternalSanctuaryMan; 11-01-2012 at 06:01 PM..
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 8,651,301 times
Reputation: 4235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
These are all rationalizations. Taking a risk is not the same as willfully stopping your own heart.

A person in combat does not want to die. Ergo, the person shooting him, according to the logic here, is committing murder, but we don't charge them with such because they are acting in their duty.

A surgeon who has a person die under his care--which happens with frequency for medical reasons--would be guilty of murder, yet we don't charge them with such because they are acting in their duty.

Not everyone who is shot by police is "suicide by cop," but and those that aren't certainly didn't want to have their hearts stopped--no will towards it--yet we don't charge those officers with murder because they're acting in their duty.

Your God murders people all the time according to this logic here--after all, it's stopping a beating heart against someone's will. You can't special plead your case on this one.
All the above actions are open to examination as to whether they were necessary or not. Every shooting by a cop requires an investigation.
We have no control over what God does.

Abortions are not subject to any investigation, or overview, she says she wants it, and it's done. Who speaks for the life she created - and she could not have created that child without a man. At the very least, let him speak for his child. Over a million children are murderd in the womb every year, why? Don't dare tell me they are the result of rape, that may account for 1%,let's give another 5% to some abnormality, now we've got 94% killed because there is no consequence to this particular act of murder. That is wrong. The consequence is that a child was murdered for no good reason.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,519 posts, read 11,235,082 times
Reputation: 17521
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyForever View Post
Would you say when stopping someone's heart violently and against their will is murder?

If so then why do you agree with abortion? Its stops a beating heart.
A fetus is not a "someone", it is an organsim.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:26 PM
 
1,443 posts, read 2,001,495 times
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For those arguing the "legality", it was legal, encouraged and state-sanctioned in Nazi Germany to kills Jews. But this wasn't murder because it was legal - right???
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,317 posts, read 17,715,143 times
Reputation: 6498
late night TV ads for tort lawyers
campaign comercials
Hardliners from both parties
crying babies on a 23 hour flight
safety seminars at work
oh you meant as in killing someone. Sorry.
What kind of murder? Premetitated?
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