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So you're saying that a 20 year Veteran Retiree only wanted to serve himself and not to provide for his family and offspring (i.e. me)?
Serving one's family is self-serving, as described in The Virtue of Selfishness:
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If a man loves a woman so much that he does not wish to survive her death, if life can have nothing more to offer him at that price, then his dying to save her is not a sacrifice.
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Originally Posted by adios
I seem to remember that he provided for me while I was younger. Certainly one who only dreams to serve themselves wouldn't support another, right?
That's a mis-characterization of selfishness. Atlas Shrugged hits the point, but The Virtue of Selfishness hits it more explicitly.
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Originally Posted by adios
Majority of the people who join the military do it out of service to their country and give back to the nation they lived and grew up in.
If that were true, then why do we need compensation beyond that necessary for survival? Why is there a G.I. Bill? Why is there retirement? If these people were serving others, they'd follow the path of Jesus right up to the crucifixion.
However, what made Jesus perfect was his willingness to go all the way. The rest of us can't do it, so painting the actions of humans as altruistic is fraudulent.
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Originally Posted by adios
Now I will concede that there is a certain selfish desire to support oneself because how can one help others if they cannot look after themselves?
If they were serious about this altruism nonsense, then they'd depend on charity.
Actually most of "us" do not know that. I am not even sure it is true nor do I care. Most of "us" have never even heard of George Soros. Unless you are counting "us" as Fox Zombies I would have to disagree.
As for your post, IF you go to the Drudge Report, and double click the title, which coincidentally is the same as your title it hot links you to the Air Force article. But of course, you did not get it from the Drudge Report.
If you haven't heard of George Soros, maybe you should watch Fox News more. You also should care.
I got the link from Twitter, which is probably where Drudge also got it from. Then again, you're so clever you should have known that.
Taking away all the political BS that occurs, there are many a child, father, mother, relative, etc who's dream and aspirations it is to join the military and serve his or her country.
Think what you want, but I commend anyone who, on the very basic level of it all, wants to protect and serve their country...even if they will get a rude wake-up call sooner rather than later.
I agree. My husband said that even as a little boy, he dressed up as a sailor. He always knew he wanted to join the Navy.
However, I think it is a less realistic option for those who have or aspire to have families, to serve long term without financial compensation. While I'm sure many join for the sole purpose of serving, there are no doubt others who wish to serve but also wish to utilize that path towards more/higher education or a career.
Serving one's family is self-serving, as described in The Virtue of Selfishness:
That's a mis-characterization of selfishness. Atlas Shrugged hits the point, but The Virtue of Selfishness hits it more explicitly.
No idea what that is or where that came from. Sounds religious...which is not the reason my father before me or I decided to join the military. This is a secular matter, keep religion out of it.
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If that were true, then why do we need compensation beyond that necessary for survival? Why is there a G.I. Bill? Why is there retirement? If these people were serving others, they'd follow the path of Jesus right up to the crucifixion.
Oh gee, I dunno? To compensate for the sacrifice your fellow Americans (including me) are willing to make so you can bad mouth the military and take advantage of all the rights, liberties, and freedoms you have? People like you make me think that serving wasn't even worth it...then I think about all the people who are thankful for my service to this great and wonderful country of ours and instantly you and your negativity vanish from thought.
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However, what made Jesus perfect was his willingness to go all the way. The rest of us can't do it, so painting the actions of humans as altruistic is fraudulent.
What does Jesus have to do with someone deciding to join the military based on secular cause? As I said before, sparky, religion had NOTHING to do with the reasons my father before me and myself decided to join the military. They were secular through and through. Keep your Christianity beliefs out of MY *secular* reasons for joining the United States military. It's a decision I am grateful for making. It is sad though that a bigoted fool such as yourself can't be thankful for the service of your fellow Americans. It's cool though - I don't expect everyone to thank me for my sacrifice that I willingly made. It's part of the trade-off.
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If they were serious about this altruism nonsense, then they'd depend on charity.
Cool story, bro. How about you tell us how you're really feeling, sparky?
I agree. My husband said that even as a little boy, he dressed up as a sailor. He always knew he wanted to join the Navy.
However, I think it is a less realistic option for those who have or aspire to have families, to serve long term without financial compensation. While I'm sure many join for the sole purpose of serving, there are no doubt others who wish to serve but also wish to utilize that path towards more/higher education or a career.
I definitely agree and while part of my reasons for joining was to give back to the country, I also joined because I was going nowhere in life and I needed a boost. The military was a means to an end because the Navy (much like the Air Force, Marines, Army, and Coast Guard) is a business and as such I was paid for my services therein. Financial compensation is the biggest reason why many people join the military, without a doubt. There's no denying that and I would be lying if I said I didn't want to get the money to go to college.
I am reaping the benefits of what I have sown and now I am in college in Hollywood studying the craft of which I've always wanted to be a part of. I set myself up to secure my future and now I'm acting on it. It's a glorious feeling to be sure.
Every time Jim Carey was about to fight, he'd say,"All right; let's dance." Then, he'd do this dance-fight thing that was hilarious.
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No idea what that is or where that came from. Sounds religious...which is not the reason my father before me or I decided to join the military. This is a secular matter, keep religion out of it.
I guess that you didn't want to dance. So much for land of the brave. Brave with overwhelming force and in a group? Maybe. Brave intellectually? Not really.
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Oh gee, I dunno? To compensate...
So why call it service? Employees of the military aren't doing anything spectacular; they're just employees like everyone else, but some of them get to shoot people with no repercussions. Others get to spoon vittles, and others get to train dogs, and others get to work on radios, etc. But none of them are serving anything except themselves, unless they're mentally ill.
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What does Jesus have to do with someone deciding to join the military based on secular cause?
Jesus is one of the few altruists that existed, and even he wasn't an authentic altruist because he anticipated compensation from God. He's relevant as a standard for altruism; if you can't live up to his standard, then you're simply not serving anything except yourself.
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I don't expect everyone to thank me for my sacrifice that I willingly made.
Does everyone who works in a steel mill, office, or car wash sacrifice too? What's the difference?
Every time Jim Carey was about to fight, he'd say,"All right; let's dance." Then, he'd do this dance-fight thing that was hilarious.
Irrelevant.
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I guess that you didn't want to dance. So much for land of the brave. Brave with overwhelming force and in a group? Maybe. Brave intellectually? Not really.
I don't get it. What are you driving at, sparky?
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So why call it service? Employees of the military aren't doing anything spectacular; they're just employees like everyone else, but some of them get to shoot people with no repercussions. Others get to spoon vittles, and others get to train dogs, and others get to work on radios, etc. But none of them are serving anything except themselves, unless they're mentally ill.
Ignorance and bigotry rules your would it seems. Way to take a collective sh*t on the sacrifices of those before you to ensure you can take advantage of their duty to this country. Can't say I'm surprised coming from someone like you. People like you are why this country is going to hell. Congratulations.
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Jesus is one of the few altruists that existed, and even he wasn't an authentic altruist because he anticipated compensation from God. He's relevant as a standard for altruism; if you can't live up to his standard, then you're simply not serving anything except yourself.
Again - what does religion have to do with MY secular reasons for joining? Keep YOUR religion that YOU believe in out of MY life and what I choose to do with it. Your religion has no bearing on me whatsoever and if you want to believe that Jesus and did all that, cool go ahead. This isn't a religious topic so take it to the religion forum.
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Does everyone who works in a steel mill, office, or car wash sacrifice too? What's the difference?
They aren't sacrificing their lives for the betterment of millions of Americans by putting themselves in harms way of the enemy? That's fairly obvious, isn't it?
Sure it is. It's as irrelevant as the declaration "let's dance."
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I don't get it. What are you driving at, sparky?
I'm suggesting that you're psychologically weak.
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People like you are why this country is going to hell.
My hypothesis is that it was never really that great, and people who believe that it was great need scapegoats to reconcile their fantasies with the reality coming into their intellectual field of vision.
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Again - what does religion have to do with MY secular reasons for joining? Keep YOUR religion that YOU believe in out of MY life and what I choose to do with it. Your religion has no bearing on me whatsoever and if you want to believe that Jesus and did all that, cool go ahead. This isn't a religious topic so take it to the religion forum.
I'm speaking of Jesus as a historical figure representing altruism. He's relevant because he truly sacrificed, but few American military employees really sacrifice; they work and get paid for their work. That's a fair relationship between them and the government, but no American owes them more than that paycheck.
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They aren't sacrificing their lives for the betterment of millions of Americans by putting themselves in harms way of the enemy? That's fairly obvious, isn't it?
No; I guess the ones whom risk their lives occupying other people's countries for a paycheck are suicidal or suffer from some other form of mental illness that upholds irrational altruism as a standard worth striving for.
My wish is that these kids would recognize that they're doing this for a paycheck and not because I, or any other responsible American, need them to. In this way, they are no different than anyone else whom works; it just happens that a very limited few put themselves in harm's way in order to occupy other people's countries, and they suffer the natural consequences of violating others.
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Care to take that foot out your mouth, sparky?
Friend, I am more certain of my position now than before.
So why call it service? Employees of the military aren't doing anything spectacular; they're just employees like everyone else, but some of them get to shoot people with no repercussions. Others get to spoon vittles, and others get to train dogs, and others get to work on radios, etc. But none of them are serving anything except themselves, unless they're mentally ill.
You forgot the part about "get shot at," not exactly a small factor.
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Originally Posted by The Homogenizer
Does everyone who works in a steel mill, office, or car wash sacrifice too? What's the difference?
They aren't offering to die to protect you - that's the difference. Again, not exactly a small factor.
You forgot the part about "get shot at," not exactly a small factor.
I didn't mention steel workers throwing out their backs or getting burned, chefs getting sliced, dog trainers getting bit, etc. either. All jobs have their risks, and if one wants a given job, then that person must assume the risks. That doesn't make it service.
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They aren't offering to die to protect you - that's the difference. Again, not exactly a small factor.
Neither is the military. They're risking their lives for paychecks.
Last edited by The Homogenizer; 11-04-2012 at 07:01 PM..
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