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Old 11-04-2012, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Metro-Detroit area
4,050 posts, read 3,953,569 times
Reputation: 2107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
You seem to think caring involves robbing from Peter to pay Paul,coincidently mittens and Obama agree with you
I don't wish the man or his daughter any ill will and hope she gets the care she needs.
My biggest wish is that the government get out of healthcare so we can all get the best possible,without having to pay an arm and a leg or be beholden to insurance and pharmaceutical co's.
Is there another word for stupid that will not get me banned, is it against the tos to highlight a statement that is so devoid of common sense, fact or a basis in reality that I can reply to the high lighted portion with??
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
John Adams said this:

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted… | Founders' Quotes

It can't be more clearly expressed than that. The powers of government are limited.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Here are the facts. Total charitable donations - All donations-religion, arts, education etc. 290 billion, which is impressive, but would not even cover the amount paid for by the fed in medicaid costs alone. That does not include what the states pay, and this girl was still not covered.

Charity Navigator: Charitable Giving In 2010
You aren't accounting for the excessive cost and waste - not to mention administrative expenses - that is involved in operating Medicaid.

Trim the fat - and it will come down considerably - to a point where the charities and government are on equal levels.

Also - keep in mind that more money would available for the charities if government wasn't taking money away before people see it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post
I totally agree.

You rarely see the same lack of compassion among those who claim to be agnostics and atheists as you do with the most fervent bible thumpers.
Do you think that the only way to be compassionate is to give government money and let them redistribute it?

How narrow-minded can you be?
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwiley View Post
Government health care is ok for those not able to provide for themselves, such as disabled children, I have never disagreed with that. AS for the rest of the population, those that can take care of themselves should take care of themselves, why should it be up to tax payers to subsidize those who are able to pay for their own health care? Even those who choose to work minimum wage jobs and not improve their lives are making the choice to not improve their lives and their position in life, it is their choices that lead to their lack of income, why should I or someone else who has made the choice to do what it takes to improve their lives have to subsidize those people?
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
yes , lets ignore the fact that countless numbers of people who always worked have found themselves bankrupt through illness , everyone can be wealthy if they possess the will , like waving a magic wand
That is what insurance is for - so one doesn't have to pay out of pocket.

How come the Democrat controlled congress rejected 15 common sense amendments to the healthcare bill which would have solved much of the problems without requiring the individual mandate or any of the intrusive big government provisions of ObamaCare? Answer- because they were suggested by Republicans and the Dems wanted to take over the healthcare system in America.

One of those amendments would have allowed people to buy insurance outside their state - which would promote competition and give more freedom to people in which plans they could purchase. Are you opposed to that idea? If so, please explain why.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:28 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 4,478,808 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Exactly. That is the number one cause of health inusrance costs. People cannot or do not pay their bills. That is the number one reason why insurance rates are so high for the rest of us. That is why we need a national health care plan. Glad you agree.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:31 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 4,478,808 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
That is what insurance is for - so one doesn't have to pay out of pocket.

How come the Democrat controlled congress rejected 15 common sense amendments to the healthcare bill which would have solved much of the problems without requiring the individual mandate or any of the intrusive big government provisions of ObamaCare? Answer- because they were suggested by Republicans and the Dems wanted to take over the healthcare system in America.

One of those amendments would have allowed people to buy insurance outside their state - which would promote competition and give more freedom to people in which plans they could purchase. Are you opposed to that idea? If so, please explain why.
Every independant study on health care costs concluded that the main cost savings would come from increased coverage (i.e. reducing te number of uninsured). Insurance companies go where they make money. For instance, try to get flood insurance in Florida.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwiley View Post
You think those that go bankrupt only go because of lack of insurance? I know many personally that go bankrupt because they are unable to work, so is your proposal that you are going to cover all their personal bills while they are sick as well? Fact is for those unable to provide insurance for themselves there have always been options, especially for children.

As for everyone being wealthy, please show me where I said that? In the united states everybody has the option to improve their lives, it is not my choice if someone chooses to work at a minimum wage job, they have options to improve their lives, and if they do not they still have medical care options available to them, which we already subsidize to a lessor extent. Last I checked their are plenty of grants and subsidized school loans, the government even subsidizes child care for those wanting to go back to school, many blue collar jobs are willing to pay well for those willing to work a **** job. The problem is that many either do not want to put in the effort, or if they have the money to pay for insurance they decide it is not a priority, they choose to drive a new car, own or rent a nicer house then they can afford, and blow off insurance knowing that through forced care, bankruptcy, and government plans they are covered if their health takes a dramatic turn for the worse.

I know you are trying to put words into my mouth, but you are looking ridiculous. I personally have worked in the insurance industry, and have a child with severe medical issues that almost forced me into bankruptcy years ago. I know both sides and am tired of reading people who think they know the answers when they have no idea the problems or what solutions exist. Hell I worked in the real estate industry when the market went bust, and people I know personally were committing suicide, being placed in mental health institutions, and/or going bankrupt left and right, and I found a way to fight through it, even going so far as working in the oil industry for 80 hours a week and traveling 300 miles to stay at a hotel all week away from my family just to pay my bills, until I could find something better. Why should I or anybody like me be forced to subsidize health care for someone who chooses to drop out of school and work at a gas station for minimum wage? Why should I have to subsidize someone who lost their job and will only take a job in a similar industry for similar pay? When did personal responsibility become something for everybody but those who choose not to deal with it? Why should I work 60 hours a week now to give my family a middle class lifestyle while these people who choose not to try to improve their lives sit on their ass and collect food stamps and receive health benefits that I help pay for? If someone is physically unable to work because of a disability or just old age, then I have no problem paying my part to help them, but those that choose not to do what it takes, then I do have a problem with them and paying their way.


As for somalia, nice try at deflection, but last I checked we were talking about people in the United States, you want to help kids in Somalia then by all means I am sure they are willing to take donations.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Exactly. That is the number one cause of health inusrance costs. People cannot or do not pay their bills. That is the number one reason why insurance rates are so high for the rest of us. That is why we need a national health care plan. Glad you agree.
No I do not agree that we need a national health care plan - and you have failed to convince me otherwise.

Try again.
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