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Old 11-07-2012, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,700 posts, read 14,154,708 times
Reputation: 15872

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
With computers making thousands of trades a second based on 'trends' and who knows what else it's certainly no longer based mainly on the performance of the companies whose stocks are traded.
That's an excellent assessment right there.

Electronically...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Ha. More ineptness exemplified by fear mongers and myth repeaters.

Dow up 62% since PRESIDENT Obama took office. S&P up over 81% since PRESIDENT Obama took office.

Economic fail=GOP.
That's meaningless.

#1 The stock market loses 40.9% of its "value" over a period of 959 days. Characterize the state of the economy during that time.

Spoiler
GDP growth was averaging an astounding 12.5% per quarter = economics fail for you.

That actually happened September 1939 to April 1942


#2 The stock market sets records over a period of 651 days. Characterize the state of the economy during that time.

Spoiler
That was the recession 1957-1961. The DJIA doubled in value from 250 to 500+.


#3 The stock market loses 45.1% of its value over a period of 694 days. Characterize the economy.

Spoiler
That was January 1973 to December 1974 US GDP grew at rates of 1.03% per quarter to as much as 3.77% per quarter, averaging 2.24% per quarter over those 8 quarters.


As you can see, your claims are refuted and the stock market is not an indicator of a growing economy or a recessionary economy.

However, the stock market is an indicator of where investors believe they will make money, and if they don't think they'll make money in stocks, they'll pull their investments and redirect them to bonds, promissory notes and dozens of other investment vehicles.

The fact that the markets continue to surge even though GDP has been declining for the last two quarters should be proof enough that there's no relationship between the economy and the stock market, but I guess some people aren't smart enough to see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
The DOW, the S&P, NASDAQ relate to the relative health of the "corporate" economy who can no longer continue the mantra that they can't move forward b/c of uncertain points in the future.
Fail.

Corporations are hoarding money. The reason corporations are hoarding money is because during times of economic instability and volatility --- like now -- cold hard cash is the only way a corporation can defend itself from an hostile takeover, a leveraged buyout, or a forced merger.

I've repeatedly cited real world examples on numerous threads --- the most notable being Kroger's defense against corporate raiders K R Kravitz. Kroger's took the huge mountain of cash it traditionally sits on (generally 1/3 of Kroger's assets are cold hard cash) and paid down some of its debt to refinance it and lower debt payment, and the took the rest of its cold hard cash and started buying up its own stock.

I've also mentioned the now-defunct Zenith Corporation.

Zenith was broke, couldn't make a profit, and so it sat there helplessly while Korean corporation Life's Good (LG -- I have one of their external DVD players -- very nice) bought up all of Zenith's stock -- and the LG owned Zenith.

That uncertainty still exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
It climbed during the great depression...
When the economy was tanking and GDP was declining at 10% per quarter.

When the economy was soaring and GDP growing at 12.5% per quarter, the stock market fell apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Consumer confidence is up 92%.
Oh, yes, the very same consumers who bought a $250,000 McMansion starter-castle with no money down, because everyone knows that paying $318,000 in interest makes financial sense....

...the very same consumers who buy a $1,700 plasma TV on credit and pay $1,700 for the TV, plus $1,789 in interest...

....the very same consumers who think health care is "free"...

As to the people they have no understanding, and only repeat what their rulers are pleased to tell them." To get a doctrine accepted or rejected it is only necessary to have it praised or ridiculed in a popular play. --- Plato 410 BC

As to the people they have no understanding, and only repeat what the pollsters are pleased to tell them." To get a doctrine accepted or rejected it is only necessary to have it praised or ridiculed in the Media --- Mircea 2010 AD

...gosh, thanks, I feel so much better now.

Economically...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe199 View Post
We're headed down the same road as Greece . . . because someone said we're headed down the same road as Greece.
No, you're headed down the same road because you are spending more than you can every collect in revenues; because you have future unfunded obligations that you can never possibly cover financially; and because the rest of the world will not be able to finance your spending spree much longer.

Because....

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yep, that's the big thing. Even EU considers the US automatic cuts etc aka "fiscal cliff" the biggest threat to global economy at this time. I hope the Congress and WH can come to an agreement for once.
What's the point?

Whether you jump over the cliff tomorrow and 5 years from now, you're going to jump over the cliff. Delaying the inevitable only increases the pain and suffering.

Automatically...


Mircea
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:48 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,956,744 times
Reputation: 8962
Yes the Dow is getting a haircut today.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:51 AM
 
6,932 posts, read 8,064,598 times
Reputation: 3024
Mircea, you made good points. However, we're not heading towards Greece. Apples and Oranges
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:52 AM
 
12,625 posts, read 18,132,156 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
In best Gomer Pyle voice...

suprise, suprise, suprise
And this is only the start sadly!
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:55 AM
 
12,625 posts, read 18,132,156 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And there's $$$ to made from the panic of the sheeple!
It's biggest one day loss in a YEAR! If this is not addressed by "the one" we will face another down grade in 2013 how is that for you!!!!!

Did you even read up on this before the comment

Stocks remained deeply in the red in a post-election selloff Wednesday, triggered by worries over the looming "fiscal cliff" and as fears over Europe's economy reemerged.

The Dow tumbled below 13,000, while the S&P 500 broke 1,400, both for the first time since early September US Stocks: Stocks Skid 2%; All Dow Components in the Red - US Business News - CNBC
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,699 posts, read 34,168,378 times
Reputation: 10405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
What's the point?

Whether you jump over the cliff tomorrow and 5 years from now, you're going to jump over the cliff. Delaying the inevitable only increases the pain and suffering.
As opposed to jumping off the cliff, it is better to get together and find a better way to deal with it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,326,058 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
As opposed to jumping off the cliff, it is better to get together and find a better way to deal with it.
You can't avoid cuts and taxes. There is no other way to deal with the debt.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:17 PM
 
2,913 posts, read 3,309,538 times
Reputation: 3136
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Correction?

What determines what's correct in a game of smoke and mirrors?

With computers making thousands of trades a second based on 'trends' and who knows what else it's certainly no longer based mainly on the performance of the companies whose stocks are traded.

You get a more honest deal at a BlackJack table, and free drinks to boot.
While I don't agree with most of your postings, I can't disagree with you here. The market has been a difficult place for the individual investor over the last 10 years.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,699 posts, read 34,168,378 times
Reputation: 10405
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You can't avoid cuts and taxes. There is no other way to deal with the debt.
I didn't say we should avoid them, I said we should do them in a controlled manner, as opposed to let the "automatic" cuts take place. The whole idea of the auto-cuts was to force the politicians to get together and create a plan.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,326,058 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I didn't say we should avoid them, I said we should do them in a controlled manner, as opposed to let the "automatic" cuts take place. The whole idea of the auto-cuts was to force the politicians to get together and create a plan.
And they never got together, never created a plan and here we are..1.5 months away and counting.
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