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Old 11-08-2012, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,661,061 times
Reputation: 2181

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
What do you want them to do? Just sit there and quietly starve to death? They have nothing to lose...
There are no jobs in Greece, people can't work no matter how much they would like to. So without benefits many people could not survive these days. That is not their fault, but the system's fault. At the same time there are studies saying Greece could solve its financial problems if only the wealthy Greek (they do exist) stopped their large-scale tax evasion and fraud.
Very much agree. Ultimately, Greece will have to default. There is simply no way for them to pay back the debt that they have incurred. The smart play for the European Union would be to allow them to bankrupt and give them some support to rebuild. As for the renegade ultra-rich who have been hiding their money away in Swiss accounts, I would say the best remedy is to get the money and put them in jail where they belong.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:13 AM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
31,736 posts, read 36,414,276 times
Reputation: 38099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
When there is too little money, it's a matter of priorities. Imagine society as a big family. Now, for whatever reason the family income declines a lot and there is not enough money anymore to continue the old live style
Or we kick the 32 year old worthless son out of the house, stop supporting him and make him get a job ?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,197 posts, read 19,212,676 times
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Unfortunately, the institutions lending money to countries are just like normal investors or loan sharks even, they are trying to get as much interest as possible at the expense of the people already in big trouble. There is nothing noble about those pseudo-bailouts, and they probably won't work anyway as the recipients can't handle the additional interest payments.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,661,061 times
Reputation: 2181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Obama tried that already, but it was rejectd, but maybe it is worth another shot.
From what I heard last night, the Republicans are ready to deal on this point. It should be interesting. It is face-saving for everyone involved and actually does something.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,197 posts, read 19,212,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Or we kick the 32 year old worthless son out of the house, stop supporting him and make him get a job ?
In your dreamland maybe where companies are looking for employees... But in reality, how can you get a job when there are no jobs, nor the means to pay for further education so you can get jobs that are there, but require qualifications you don't have?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,661,061 times
Reputation: 2181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Unfortunately, the institutions lending money to countries are just like normal investors or loan sharks even, they are trying to get as much interest as possible at the expense of the people already in big trouble. There is nothing noble about those pseudo-bailouts, and they probably won't work anyway as the recipients can't handle the additional interest payments.
Yes, the best way to handle these lenders is to go bankrupt and force them to take the losses. However, in this country and Europe, the lenders (the bankers) also the members of the Federal Reserve and ECB, and rather than take losses, the bankers just print more money and move the losses onto the general populace, which manifests in higher COL, lower wages, less interest on savings, fewer jobs, etc.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,661,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
In your dreamland maybe where companies are looking for employees... But in reality, how can you get a job when there are no jobs, nor the means to pay for further education so you can get jobs that are there, but require qualifications you don't have?
This is the crux of the problem. How does an economy create new jobs if the general populace is getting poorer and is unable to buy goods or services (less demand). Corporations do not create jobs (in fact the reduce jobs) as demand increases. A good policy would be one that encourages wealth growth among the greatest number of the people. As it stands today, all of the wealth growth over the last 20 years has been at the top 1%.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:23 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,664,057 times
Reputation: 18036
I think we are at such a pout with national debt that its goig to be a long painful road .We are not too far behind european copuntries that have made serve cuts in most cases.Its lie comparing gremany who made cuts adn reforms inthe 90's to otehr who continue to run deficits the started raising taxes and continuig to spend. At this point they can't borrow at any thing but unpayable rates that continue increase even with cuts and are facing austr=erity because of it and deacdes of those exteeme cuts.Basicallt many coubtries have taxed their economies to point that their is no investment money thus growth. I am not sure really if we can not i time go down with most of the so called advanced weatern economies .Certainyl we are see the anarchies take full advatage i grece now with fire bombing and riots.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,631 posts, read 34,138,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
From what I heard last night, the Republicans are ready to deal on this point. It should be interesting. It is face-saving for everyone involved and actually does something.
Yes, now that their #1 priority of making Obama a one term president is a moot point, maybe they will get some stuff done. Obama's proposal from to cut corporate tax from 35% to 25% while removing deductions and loopholes was copied by Romney, and supported by GOP, so there should be no reason to reject it again.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,661,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, now that their #1 priority of making Obama a one term president is a moot point, maybe they will get some stuff done. Obama's proposal from to cut corporate tax from 35% to 25% while removing deductions and loopholes was copied by Romney, and supported by GOP, so there should be no reason to reject it again.
I think the primary problem Republicans are facing is that exit polls have shown that they are being largely blamed for the beginning of the current crisis, during the Bush Administration, and they are being perceived as obstructionists. As a result, they did much more poorly during the elections than they expected.

I think that the electorate is much more knowledgeable and nuanced than politicians perceive and they (both parties) actually may have to change their ways. Analyzing the exit polls must be an eye opener for the candidates. The electorate is actually quite on to things and really are ready for solutions. The economic pain over the last few years has been an eyeopener for many people.
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