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Old 11-14-2012, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,186,715 times
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If Marxism is such an enlightened, intelligent concept why didn't the Soviet Union become a perfect utopia? Everything the most radical liberals advocate was tried almost a century ago in Russia and the result was the largest mass-murder in the history of the world. If it didn't work for Russia, what makes America any different?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:01 PM
 
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THE USSR did not fall because of single payer healthcare.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,712,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
If Marxism is such an enlightened, intelligent concept why didn't the Soviet Union become a perfect utopia?
So your idea of Marxism is what was USSR? Now, might I ask you what your idea of free market is?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Clear Lake Area
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You recognize that all 'isms aren't simply black and white? There is a sliding scale... e.g. a country like Canada can have elements of capitalism and socialism and be prosperous in wealth and health.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: San Diego
990 posts, read 935,147 times
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Originally Posted by LostInHouston View Post
You recognize that all 'isms aren't simply black and white? There is a sliding scale... e.g. a country like Canada can have elements of capitalism and socialism and be prosperous in wealth and health.
You can't convince the low-information people who equate healthcare with Marxism and Communism with Stalinism.

The fact that they still bring up the USSR is proof that they are too dumb to think critically. The USSR failed because of corruption, spending too much on the military, forcing people to live in a society without personal freedoms, a closing off of trade with the western world...it's not the socialistic aspects which killed the USSR, its the Fascist and anti-freedom aspects which did.

Plus, Communism and Socialism are completely different from each other yet the dummies seem to think they are the same.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,248,503 times
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Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
Communism and Socialism are completely different from each other yet the dummies seem to think they are the same.
Both of them penalize individual initiative; socialism just makes a greater effort to compensate the less-motivated and the irresponsible for their support via the politcal processm with the most-productive taxpayers footing more of the bill.

Both are legitimized thievery; Marxism just adds a harsher form of repression. The intensity differs, but the orientation of the concept and its progenitors is identical.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:53 PM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,872,035 times
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lol. There are a lot of reasons why the USSR fell, and you would probably be better served doing some research before asking such an open-ended question - especially around here with all these internet warriors. : )
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:08 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,904,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
If Marxism is such an enlightened, intelligent concept why didn't the Soviet Union become a perfect utopia? Everything the most radical liberals advocate was tried almost a century ago in Russia and the result was the largest mass-murder in the history of the world. If it didn't work for Russia, what makes America any different?

"One more roll, just one more roll and I will win.... *craps, loser* ok, just one more roll, I know I am going to win this time..."

Pretty much sums it up.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:03 PM
 
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Marxism hinged on the idea that worker's lives could not get better without revolution. When Marxists saw that, after his death, Mark was wrong about a lot of things, they revised many of their ideas. Other, hardline Marxists kept pounding on the same useless.

The result was, after the October Revolution, a split in the socialist world. On one side, were the communists and on the other were the democratic socialist. They fought the reds in the streets, like in Russia itself (The Mensheviks) and Germany (the Iron Front)

Basically, the USSR fell because it was an evil empire that was the opposite of what Marx visioned with a system that does not work.

Mark Twain once said "if Jesus Christ was alive today, the last thing he would be is a Christian." I agree. And if Marx was alive today, the last thing he would be is a Marxist.

Now, Social-Democracy has been a proven success, as Denmark, Germany, Finland and Norway prove. Brazil has recently started to embrace social democracy, and the result is that poverty is starting to go down and the economy is starting to grow.


And another question: if laissez faire capitalism is so great, then why aren't Haiti, Yemen and Somalia heavens on Earth?
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: San Diego
990 posts, read 935,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Both of them penalize individual initiative; socialism just makes a greater effort to compensate the less-motivated and the irresponsible for their support via the politcal processm with the most-productive taxpayers footing more of the bill.

Both are legitimized thievery; Marxism just adds a harsher form of repression. The intensity differs, but the orientation of the concept and its progenitors is identical.
And capitalism is not thievery?
You don't consider the banks taking billions from us to be thievery?


I'm no Socialist (I'm a Libertarian, I believe in a free market, social liberty and 100% open trade with tax-based incentives to keep jobs here and to punish outsourcing and unfair pay), I simply can't stand ignorance. Study Marx and Engels (yeah, there was another guy on the Communist Manifesto, I bet you people didn't even knnow that!) and you will see how flawed their ideas are, but also how wrong you people are about them. Stalinism/Leninism/Marxism/Communism are not the same as Democratic Socialism in any way.

Socialism is merely a system where the people contribute to each other. Capitalism is simply the exploitation of the working class. Would Apple have $50,000,000,000 in cash reserves if it did not exploit workers? After all, if someone generates $500/hr of value and gets paid only $5/hr, aren't they being exploited?

Marxism is not about repression, it's about giving the people power over the means of production...that's hardly repression. Try reading the ACTUAL TEXT of Karl Mark and Friedrich Engels before you spout off at the mouth about something you know nothing about.
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