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The founding fathers no longer felt any loyalty to the British Crown whose subjects they were, and yes, that makes tem very unpatriotic indeed. Patriotism isn't an absolute value, it's tied to the country you're inhabiting.
Not just the founding fathers, but anyone, all over the world who has ever called for secession are equally unpatriotic. The people in Yugoslavia, were unpatriotic, and we helped them. Israeli's living in the Palestinian territories were unpatriotic. All of the constituents of the Soviet Union were unpatriotic when it dissolved.
The people calling for secession in Scotland right now must be unpatriotic. When Ireland became independent of Britain, it must have been filled to the brim with unpatriotic people. People calling for independence in Catalonia, Spain must all be unpatriotic. People in Venice calling for secession from Italy must be unpatriotic. The Kurds in northern Iraq, who want their own country, are unpatriotic. The people of South Sudan I guess were unpatriotic. Every nation created by the breakup of a larger nation, had to have been filled with people who were unpatriotic. Which of the independent countries of the world, which were previously part of a larger nation, do you believe should not exist?
Secession is the most patriotic damn thing a person could desire. Secession is a reaffirmation of the principle, that the government exists by the consent of the governed. If the people don't give their consent, then government only exists as tyranny and subjugation of the weak.
Does that mean we should have secession? No. But it does mean we need to find a way to return to a government that exists by the consent of the people. Until 1861, all the states stayed in this country voluntarily. After 1861, the states are only in this nation because of force. You don't find that sad? How can there be a union, if it only exists through force.
And what is stopping you from seceding? I have no problem with you leaving the country if you seem to hate it so much. You go rally your troops and try to leave the country.....let us know how that works out for you.
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Whining on the internet isn't going to make secession happen for you, if you want it to happen then you are going to have to take actual action to make it happen. But if you are just gonna post on the internet about wanting to secede and whining about not getting your way with this past election, then you might have to put up with others' freedom of speech and we call you out on this.
I have no problem with secession. Idle threats resulting from losing an election are something else altogether. Such people are acting like children. If our rights actually do become threatened, I will stand right alongside those who choose to form their own union. So far, there has been no communist takeover, no one has come for my gun, freedom of speech is alive and well, etc., etc. Therefore, these juvenile talks of secession make for a good laugh, nothing more.
As far as patriotism goes, that's a very broad and subjective matter.
I have no problem with secession. Idle threats resulting from losing an election are something else altogether. Such people are acting like children. If our rights actually do become threatened, I will stand right alongside those who choose to form their own union. So far, there has been no communist takeover, no one has come for my gun, freedom of speech is alive and well, etc., etc. Therefore, these juvenile talks of secession make for a good laugh, nothing more.
Whining on the internet isn't going to make secession happen for you, if you want it to happen then you are going to have to take actual action to make it happen. But if you are just gonna post on the internet about wanting to secede and whining about not getting your way with this past election, then you might have to put up with others' freedom of speech and we call you out on this.
Maybe I miss understood that CD is a forum for open discussion and debate of ideas....both like and unlike.
Yeah, the founding fathers were very unpatriotic to the British...As the current loony secessionists are to Americans.
That's what lunatic right wing fanatics don't understand.
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