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Old 11-30-2012, 10:39 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,443,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Lesson here: get a roommate.

Again, anyone can do it. Apple was started out of a garage.

That's your own bad decision.

I already have five roommates, most of whom don't have jobs...who stay home all day, drink and fight. Is it too much for me to ask for some peace and quiet?

Apple was started in a garage with more space than I have for business AND living. The garage is used for someone else's workshop and storage.

I was getting away from a dysfunctional family, I've always considered it the only sane decision available.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I already have five roommates, most of whom don't have jobs...who stay home all day, drink and fight. Is it too much for me to ask for some peace and quiet?
No. Earn it.

Quote:
Apple was started in a garage with more space than I have for business AND living. The garage is used for someone else's workshop and storage.

I was getting away from a dysfunctional family, I've always considered it the only sane decision available.
So did Oprah. Look at how she turned out.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Apple started out of a garage. Oprah came from a poor background. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Oprah couldn't in "free market".

And J K Rowlings thanks the social safety net that enabled her to succeed.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:48 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13679
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Oprah couldn't in "free market".
Meaning what?
Quote:
And J K Rowlings thanks the social safety net that enabled her to succeed.
Note how she used the safety net to develop a talent and skill and worked her way out of poverty. That's what we need to require of working-age non-incapacitated welfare recipients.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:53 AM
 
20,706 posts, read 19,349,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Meaning what?
Note how she used the safety net to develop a talent and skill and worked her way out of poverty. That's what we need to require of working-age non-incapacitated welfare recipients.

What should we do about the rentier millionaires with their property entitlements? Should we entice them with billions?
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,202,687 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Oprah couldn't in "free market".

And J K Rowlings thanks the social safety net that enabled her to succeed.


The real question is, what would J K Rowlings have done without the social safety net? Would there be no books without a social safety net? Did other authors require a social safety net to write a book?


Many successful people may have been on welfare at one time, but was it the welfare that made them succeed? Is it really proper to link welfare to success if it wasn't necessary at all? Might there be certain individuals who would have been more successful had welfare not disincentivized them to work in the first place?


I don't know what you mean by Oprah and the free market. Oprah is a wonderful example of the free market. No one forces people to watch her show. People watch her show and read her books because they find value in it. You could possibly argue that there is a certain amount of bias towards her both good and bad because she is black. But the free-market allows for those biases, as long as those biases are natural, and not government imposed.

If I'm hiring a housekeeper, I might only want a white housekeeper, or a Hispanic housekeeper, or a black housekeeper, or maybe I want one young, slim, and attractive one, or one that is old with a soft voice. Who knows, thats my preference. But that is the free-market in play. The market is only not free if it is regulated. Basically, where an outside force is restricting my choices.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Meaning what?
Meaning, creation of an environment that allowed her to succeed. We can only imagine what it would have taken to be as rich and successful, if she were born in 1854 instead of 1954 especially in deep South.

Quote:
Note how she used the safety net to develop a talent and skill and worked her way out of poverty. That's what we need to require of working-age non-incapacitated welfare recipients.
Correct, and she is extremely thankful of welfare programs that helped her. And appalled at Americans who won't quit until they destroy any idea of welfare in the USA. She took advantage of the market, of capitalism, but not free market.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:05 AM
 
20,706 posts, read 19,349,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Apple started out of a garage. Oprah came from a poor background. You have no idea what you're talking about.
The majority of wealth is inherited today as it is in most mature economies. In pioneer states its more difficult to live off rent because there are few rents. You can read up on Ricardian economics that describes the appearance of rents in mature states. This came about with the big fight over the corn laws which was favored by the land owners and opposed by the industrialists who saw their grain prices going up increasing the cost of labor in Britain. The cost of grain was regulated by the least productive land which was the only stuff appearing on the market at the time. So they wanted to import grain. The corn laws were somewhat of the residual of war with France.


That is why the US did have much more industrial minded people because that was where the money was. There was nothing to rent. There was plenty of free fertile land to compete with anyone who tried to rent it out. This applies of course to much more than agriculture which was what introduced the concept. We keep the steady march towards more and more things to rent out. The only way to simulate the pioneer state is to tax the economic rents away.

My brother works for them since he is an accountant that has always worked in real estate and several real estate investment trusts. He has attended some of these so called old money events. They more or less own land all over the world as absentee land owners. I assure you they do nothing more than the titled nobility once did. They make absolutely nothing of value.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:06 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13679
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
What should we do about the rentier millionaires with their property entitlements? Should we entice them with billions?
They are entitled to no more than anyone else, and in many cases are entitled to far less, as this shows:
In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year | ZeroHedge

Get off their backs, stop gouging them for taxes to support others' sloth and irresponsibility, and let people choose whether or not to continue enriching them by buying/using their proffered goods and services. DON'T bail anyone out when they make bad decisions. The banksters never should have been bailed out. The only reason they were is because union pensions (heavily invested in MBS and other financial products) would have crashed along with them.
For example, Second Circuit Reinstates MBS Class Action Against Goldman Sachs | Structured Finance Litigation Blog

Last edited by InformedConsent; 11-30-2012 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The real question is, what would J K Rowlings have done without the social safety net?
You can guess, but her thankfulness to the system speaks differently:

"I am indebted to the British welfare state; the very one that Mr Cameron would like to replace with charity handouts. When my life hit rock bottom, that safety net, threadbare though it had become under John Major’s Government, was there to break the fall."

Humility, and patriotism, at its best.
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