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Old 03-04-2013, 08:32 PM
 
36,812 posts, read 16,368,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Obviously you didn't listen to the complete "Confusing God and Government" sermon because if you had you would know that he was taking about (slamming) all human governments not just the American Government. He made direct references to Governments not run by people of European Descent.

Is Rev. Wright not allowed to base his comments on historical fact? Have not leaders of the United States who believed in white supremacy implemented polices, laws and customs that were detrimental to black men. is it not historical fact that there were white racists in position of power in the United States?

What you won't find is Rev. Wright implying that all whites are racists.

I agree race bating needs to stop, which is why I have no problem challenging people who assert that Rev. Wright or the members of Trinity UCC hate white people.
But why live in the past? Those who do like Wright do so because they can play the victim card. It excites the congregation and keeps them coming back. It is the same thing that Jesse Jackson does. Wright may not think that all whites are racists but he certainly wants them to all feel guilty about the past. End of conversation. There is no defending the undefensable.

 
Old 03-04-2013, 08:35 PM
 
39,257 posts, read 20,360,961 times
Reputation: 12751
Division, Racism and Fear mongering. Obama's legacy!
 
Old 03-04-2013, 08:37 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,300 posts, read 10,496,368 times
Reputation: 3541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
But why live in the past? Those who do like Wright do so because they can play the victim card. It excites the congregation and keeps them coming back. It is the same thing that Jesse Jackson does. Wright may not think that all whites are racists but he certainly wants them to all feel guilty about the past. End of conversation. There is no defending the undefensable.
I could you feel guilty about something that you are not (supposely) are doing? Why is being aware of something that you choose to ignore making you feel guilty anyway, unless you don't want to hear it and don't care anyway?
 
Old 03-04-2013, 08:47 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,637,983 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Obviously you didn't listen to the complete "Confusing God and Government" sermon because if you had you would know that he was taking about (slamming) all human governments not just the American Government. He made direct references to Governments not run by people of European Descent.
I don't listen to racists so I doubt I will ever have a complete idea of his sermons. I've seen enough quotes. Nobody who refers to the "US of KKKA" is worth paying much attention to.

Quote:
Is Rev. Wright not allowed to base his comments on historical fact? Have not leaders of the United States who believed in white supremacy implemented polices, laws and customs that were detrimental to black men. is it not historical fact that there were white racists in position of power in the United States?
Sure, he's allowed to do that. Are others allowed to disagree?

Quote:
What you won't find is Rev. Wright implying that all whites are racists.
The fact that the discussion revolves around whether or not he said "all" whites are racists is in itself a red flag. In my opinion - and I'm not saying it is anything but my personal opinion - if a preacher of God has made enough racial comments to even make such a discussion possible to begin with, that in itself is an indication he's not a minister worth listening to. I wouldn't go to church to listen to even one sermon about race.

The Bible isn't about white supremacy, European governments, positions of power in the United States, laws and customs detrimental to black people, etc. What is a reverend doing talking about any of that stuff in church to begin with? How exactly is that spreading God's word? Sounds to me like using the Bible as an excuse to spread rhetoric. I don't agree with white ministers using the Bible to justify racism. Why should I agree with a black minister doing it?

At least when Al Sharpton talks politics, even though he's a Reverend, he doesn't pretend his remarks are a sermon with some kind of spiritual value

Quote:
I agree race bating needs to stop, which is why I have no problem challenging people who assert that Rev. Wright or the members of Trinity UCC hate white people.
Doesn't matter if they hate white people or not. You don't have to hate white people to be race baiting.
 
Old 03-04-2013, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,465 posts, read 3,960,175 times
Reputation: 1369
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
I don't listen to racists so I doubt I will ever have a complete idea of his sermons. I've seen enough quotes. Nobody who refers to the "US of KKKA" is worth paying much attention to.



Sure, he's allowed to do that. Are others allowed to disagree?



The fact that the discussion revolves around whether or not he said "all" whites are racists is in itself a red flag. In my opinion - and I'm not saying it is anything but my personal opinion - if a preacher of God has made enough racial comments to even make such a discussion possible to begin with, that in itself is an indication he's not a minister worth listening to. I wouldn't go to church to listen to even one sermon about race.

The Bible isn't about white supremacy, European governments, positions of power in the United States, laws and customs detrimental to black people, etc. What is a reverend doing talking about any of that stuff in church to begin with? How exactly is that spreading God's word? Sounds to me like using the Bible as an excuse to spread rhetoric. I don't agree with white ministers using the Bible to justify racism. Why should I agree with a black minister doing it?

At least when Al Sharpton talks politics, even though he's a Reverend, he doesn't pretend his remarks are a sermon with some kind of spiritual value



Doesn't matter if they hate white people or not. You don't have to hate white people to be race baiting.
Under your criteria then Dr. Martin Luther King Jr was also a minister not to be listened to.

When did Rev. Wright ever use the Bible to justify racism?

You would have to listen to the Sermon in the first place to understand the message and how it relates to the Bible.

The sermon in question was about how people should not look to human governments for what only God can deliver and they should not expect God to behave like human governments. Governments will lie, fail and change, but God will not.

From the sermon, with an example of how the references to governments are not about white people.

Number two: Governments change.

Long before there was a Red White and Blue colonization, the Egyptian government was doing colonization. They colonized half the continent of Africa, they colonized parts of the Mediterranean. All colonizers ain’t White. Turn to your neighbor and say “oppressors come in all colors. Hello, hello, hello. But while the Government of Egypt and Pharaoh ran it, they don’t run a thing today, and why? Because Governments change. When the Babylonians carried away the people of promise into exile, the Babylonian Government was the baddest government around. But when King Nebuchadnezzar when crazy, his government was replaced by the government of King Belshazzar.

.................
Where governments change – write this down, Malachiah 3:6 – “thus sayeth the Lord:” – repeat after me – “for I am the Lord, and I change not.” That’s the Kings James version. The New Revised says, “For I the Lord do not change.” In other words, where Governments change, God does not change. God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. That’s what is name, “I am”, means you know. He does not change. There is no shadow of turning in God; one songwriter puts it this way: “As thou hast been, thou forever will be.

Thou changes not. Thy compassions, they fail not. Great is thy faithfulness Lord unto me.” God does not change! God was against slavery on yesterday, and God who does not change is still against slavery today. God was a God of love yesterday, and God who does not change is still a God of love today. God was a God of justice on yesterday, and God who does not change is still a God of justice today. Turn to your neighbor and say, “God does not change.”


Tell me how proclaiming that "oppressors come in all colors" is race baiting?
 
Old 03-04-2013, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,465 posts, read 3,960,175 times
Reputation: 1369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
But why live in the past? Those who do like Wright do so because they can play the victim card. It excites the congregation and keeps them coming back. It is the same thing that Jesse Jackson does. Wright may not think that all whites are racists but he certainly wants them to all feel guilty about the past. End of conversation. There is no defending the undefensable.
Trinity is not living in the past. Trinity's congregation is dedicated to solving current every day problems.

A church taking on projects like the following is neither living in the past nor playing the role of victim.

As Obama seeks re-election, president's former church seeks return to priorities - Chicago Tribune

This month, the church is rolling out its plans for Imani Village, a 27-acre community next door to Chicago State University. The property is now occupied by a charter school. Church members hope to build sustainable housing, an urban farming and agricultural center, retail stores, community health centers and an NCAA-certified sports complex.
"We've moved into a completely different mode of developing a sustainable green ministry, recognizing that green is the new area of social justice for our community," said Moss, Trinity's senior pastor, in an interview with the Tribune. "People would be able to raise their children in a unique and affirming, powerful environment. Send them to preschool, and send them to college next door."
Originally imagined more than 30 years ago by Moss' predecessor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., the ambitious mixed-use development has been part of the church's vision for decades, albeit to address specific concerns of the time. In 1979, church leaders wanted to fill the need for senior housing and better education for African-American youths.
 
Old 03-05-2013, 07:05 AM
 
36,812 posts, read 16,368,917 times
Reputation: 9904
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
I don't listen to racists so I doubt I will ever have a complete idea of his sermons. I've seen enough quotes. Nobody who refers to the "US of KKKA" is worth paying much attention to.



Sure, he's allowed to do that. Are others allowed to disagree?



The fact that the discussion revolves around whether or not he said "all" whites are racists is in itself a red flag. In my opinion - and I'm not saying it is anything but my personal opinion - if a preacher of God has made enough racial comments to even make such a discussion possible to begin with, that in itself is an indication he's not a minister worth listening to. I wouldn't go to church to listen to even one sermon about race.

The Bible isn't about white supremacy, European governments, positions of power in the United States, laws and customs detrimental to black people, etc. What is a reverend doing talking about any of that stuff in church to begin with? How exactly is that spreading God's word? Sounds to me like using the Bible as an excuse to spread rhetoric. I don't agree with white ministers using the Bible to justify racism. Why should I agree with a black minister doing it?

At least when Al Sharpton talks politics, even though he's a Reverend, he doesn't pretend his remarks are a sermon with some kind of spiritual value



Doesn't matter if they hate white people or not. You don't have to hate white people to be race baiting.
Excellent post! You stated it very well. I don't even feel the need to add a single thing to this.
 
Old 03-05-2013, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,465 posts, read 3,960,175 times
Reputation: 1369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Excellent post! You stated it very well. I don't even feel the need to add a single thing to this.
Perhaps you could add the words the prove your assertion, or maybe better yet you should stop making assertions you can't support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
No, Rev. Wright villified all whites not just the rich ones.
 
Old 03-05-2013, 09:26 AM
 
36,812 posts, read 16,368,917 times
Reputation: 9904
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Perhaps you could add the words the prove your assertion, or maybe better yet you should stop making assertions you can't support.
How's this just for starters?

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.” (magazine article)

“Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.” (sermon)

Read more: Pastor Jeremiah Wright Controversy “Quotes” | Bumpshack.com
 
Old 03-05-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,665 posts, read 74,620,384 times
Reputation: 48173
they are angry bek he has what they dont. they will never have what he has, bek they are unwilling to do what he does.
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