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View Poll Results: Should we build the HSR network
Yes 192 60.57%
No 125 39.43%
Voters: 317. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-30-2012, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,389,766 times
Reputation: 4190

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Yes we should build it. It is ridiculous that Europeans can get from London to Paris faster than Floridians can fly from Orlando to Miami. Of course there is opposition, as there is to any innovative form of transportation. And no doubt it would create new suburbs, as places within 160 km of center city become an easy commute. The Erie Canal cut the cost of ground transportation by over 90%, but during development it was derided as "Clinton's folly."
Two cities in Florida. Nothing is preventing the taxpayers of Florida build a rail system.

 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:16 PM
 
20,615 posts, read 19,261,971 times
Reputation: 8209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Two cities in Florida. Nothing is preventing the taxpayers of Florida build a rail system.
Agreed. They could open a state chartered bank and create the credit to build it. If it does not create a worth while asset that matches the expense then its a solvency issue like any other bank. Do think you think banks raise money to build ? No they use fractional reserves so why does a state project that a majority agrees upon have to be full equity while the banksters print speculatively command style with a tiny cabal?

I just want to know why we give private banks more power than states, voluntarily, especially after what they did.
 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,389,766 times
Reputation: 4190
State-issues bonds....
 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:28 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,434,042 times
Reputation: 3563
Unfortunately, America is no longer capable of building any large projects. Those days are gone. Even if we decide in favor of such project, it may take more then 100 years to complete. Rebuilding a small 2 lane bridge (70 foot long) near our town, took over 5 years.
Most NYC subway system built before 1900, took 3-4 years digging with shovels. Nowadays, expansion of 2ed Ave branch is going on for the last 10 years and the finish date was recently postponed to 2017. (That is with computers, robots, excavators, and power tools)

Last edited by oberon_1; 11-30-2012 at 08:37 PM..
 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:28 PM
 
20,615 posts, read 19,261,971 times
Reputation: 8209
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Yes we should build it. It is ridiculous that Europeans can get from London to Paris faster than Floridians can fly from Orlando to Miami. Of course there is opposition, as there is to any innovative form of transportation. And no doubt it would create new suburbs, as places within 160 km of center city become an easy commute. The Erie Canal cut the cost of ground transportation by over 90%, but during development it was derided as "Clinton's folly."


Like Seward's folly. Spending money on real infrastructure is something the private sectors is increasingly unable let alone the public sector.

What it seems people fail to realize is we have a broken financial system. The banking system is broke. Money is created to bloat financial assets and increase debts and securities. Paper wealth is on the rise again which is head right back whence it came. We are increasing unable to make tangible assets. While deficits for infrastructure sounds bad the only other alternative is Goldman Sachs, Chase Manhattan and Citibank. Their product is debt only this time is at higher interest and its real. Are they coming to our rescue with funds to build American industry? Are they planning factories and infrastructure? We don't have much of a money system left which leaves few options.
 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:37 PM
 
20,615 posts, read 19,261,971 times
Reputation: 8209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
State-issues bonds....

You sure?

Don't you find it sort of strange that a house expands the money supply with nothing but an individual yokel and a bank but state projects and referendums must go to bond markets? Personally I think it should be the reverse. I think banks should loan with time deposits and states should expand the money supply. That is because infrastructure tends to be more productive than mansions.



However one state has this figured out.

How the Nation


I'd also add that if I ran my state I'd enact the power to tax mortgage principles to raise effective interest rates when the FED decides to bloat a housing bubble . The state could insulate itself from Wall Street and foreign hot money destabilizing it. They call that socialism? Stopping Washington cronyism in favor of state power is the opposite.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 11-30-2012 at 08:46 PM..
 
Old 11-30-2012, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,273,221 times
Reputation: 20827
It amazes me that politicians who prattle about such pie-in-the-sky actually know so little about the technology involved (which, FWIW, wold not have been the case fifty years ago.

In reality, we have been developing an HSR system for nearly fifty years by upgrading conventional rail technology, and will continue to do so. Two more systems, along the West Coast and centered on Chicago, are just getting off the ground.

However, the technology is very expensve, the cost of land nearly prohibitive in some areas, and public interest grows and wanes with the current price of fuel.
 
Old 11-30-2012, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,882 posts, read 14,072,504 times
Reputation: 16589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Consumers voted and they chose the automobile. Sorry you lost.
Actually, they didn't.
GM chose for them. Through skullduggery, bribery, and corruption, the electric traction rail network was killed off and deliberately destroyed so it would never rise to compete with the automobile.

Taken for a Ride (documentary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xg8h9kPfaQ

Before 1970, it made sense to focus on petroleum based transportation. America was Queen of Oil. After 1970 and production dropping, it no longer did.
 
Old 11-30-2012, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,882 posts, read 14,072,504 times
Reputation: 16589
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffersondavis View Post
Cars and planes are the future. Trains are the past. We don't need to spend trillions on an outdated mode of transportation when we have many other things to fix like the debt.
  • If the future has plenty of petroleum or other fossil fuels, cars and airplanes will be viable means of transportation.
  • If the future does not have plenty of petroleum or it is too expensive, no, cars and airplanes will not be used for the masses.
Future tense
Electric traction rail is the most efficient form of land transportation - at this time. Barring a technological breakthrough in mag-lev, or something else, steel wheel on steel rail will remain the champion. However, that does not apply completely to High speed rail - which becomes less efficient as the frictional forces from high speed become a factor.

For more info, check this link:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/23375969-post108.html
 
Old 11-30-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,882 posts, read 14,072,504 times
Reputation: 16589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
The american consumer disagrees with you.
Since the 1920s, American consumers had little choice in the matter.
They were manipulated into accepting the destruction of the world's largest network of electric traction rail systems.

It was once said that one could ride electric rail (interurbans) from Maine to the Rockies and not have to step on the ground. At one time, America had the MOST track mileage in the world.
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