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View Poll Results: Should we build the HSR network
Yes 192 60.57%
No 125 39.43%
Voters: 317. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2012, 06:49 PM
 
808 posts, read 1,678,839 times
Reputation: 813

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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
High speed rail makes sense in European countries because they are small. The US is so vast that high speed rail at the national level would be significantly slower than flying and, consequently, would probably be less popular. It might work on a regional level though.
America is too big? Tell that to China. They've got High Speed rails left and right.

 
Old 12-01-2012, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,176,592 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Before the rise of the PROGRESSIVES and their extortionary tax rates, "bad old private enterprise" provided for the infrastructure.

And for the record, what delegation of power is in any constitution for the state to take over the infrastructure at public expense?

Isn't it an axiom that any service provided by government will cost more, take longer to build, waste more resources, be plagued with red tape, bureaucracy and overhead? Not to mention that it will be held hostage to political whims and personalities?
The death of the streetcar industry came from the auto industry buying up rail lines and closing them down to make cars more attractive. Private industry did the most damage to the rail industry, the only surviving rail was the ones that were taken over by the public sector.

Again, our public sector has been providing us with a highway infrastructure from the beginning, which is something we have expanded and upgraded over the decades.

As for your question about taking over infrastructure at the public expense, off the top of my head I don't know what it is legally, but when providing a service to the greater public, there is nothing wrong with it then being run by the public for the public, much like our highway system that is run by the public for the public, do you also have a problem with that?
 
Old 12-01-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
1,264 posts, read 1,552,348 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Maurio View Post
The thought of trains going 200 or more MPH should scare the hell outta people. The wreck into cars and trucks all the time going only 40 MPH. If a train hit a diesel tractor trailor going 200 MPH, it would kill everybody instantly.
Do you realize that not a single person has ever died as a result of a bullet train on in the history of Japan's 48 years of having bullet train? I would be more worried about the thousands of people each year who die in car accidents and plane crashes.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,417,223 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
Do you realize that not a single person has ever died as a result of a bullet train on in the history of Japan's 48 years of having bullet train? I would be more worried about the thousands of people each year who die in car accidents and plane crashes.
And China?
 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
1,264 posts, read 1,552,348 times
Reputation: 768
There was one incident, but the point is that high speed rail is much safer than most other forms of transportation.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,176,592 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
[] Check out the complaints about the Federal Railway Administration and its medieval regulations that make it impossible to match the faster Japanese and European rail systems.
[] When NYC grabbed all the subways, again, expansion stopped for decades (just recently, they were forced to expand due to the public outcry), and improvements were forgotten, again for decades.
1. If you want to see changes to our railway regulations, I agree with that, we need to modernize them and modernize everything about our railway system. That is something I hope we get to see if the Senate gets to curb the issue with filibusters in January so that they can get some of these things corrected. We really need to update our rail system.

2. You need to read the history of Robert Moses if you wish to talk about the subways in NYC. He was in control of that and was hugely against rail, he believed in highway expansions and wanted to turn NYC into an auto city, I am happy he finally failed at that pipedream and is finally expanding the subways that should of happened back during that era.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
[1] The death of the streetcar industry came from the auto industry buying up rail lines and closing them down to make cars more attractive. Private industry did the most damage to the rail industry, the only surviving rail was the ones that were taken over by the public sector.

[2] Again, our public sector has been providing us with a highway infrastructure from the beginning, which is something we have expanded and upgraded over the decades.

[3] As for your question about taking over infrastructure at the public expense, off the top of my head I don't know what it is legally, but when providing a service to the greater public, there is nothing wrong with it then being run by the public for the public, much like our highway system that is run by the public for the public, do you also have a problem with that?
[1] Researchers have also uncovered political corruption, with covert payouts to government officials to look the other way. In one PBS expose, a researcher found evidence of bribery - where outgoing commissioners were "given" lucrative Cadillac dealerships, etc, etc. After their assistance, of course.
[2] Actually, that is not true. Take a trip into the records bureau sometime. In the past, the roads belonged to the owners of adjacent land. They granted a "right of way" which was reciprocated. Also known as personal liberty - the RIGHT to travel by horse, wagon or AUTOMOBILE - not a privilege requiring licensing by the State.
[3] I have a problem with COMPULSORY taxation, under threat, duress and or coercion, to fund anything beyond securing rights and governing those who consent. And when the government mismanages things, what is their response? Ask for more taxes from the people to clean up their mess!

Most Americans are unaware of their history and laws, thanks to the world's greatest propaganda ministry.

-------------------------
References

NATURAL RIGHTS - ... are the rights of life, LIBERTY, privacy, and good reputation.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., p. 1324

" PERSONAL LIBERTY, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or NATURAL Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property...and is regarded as inalienable."
- - - 16 Corpus Juris Secundum, Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987.

" PERSONAL LIBERTY largely consists of the Right of locomotion to go where and when one pleases only so far restrained as the Rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or AUTOMOBILE, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
- - - II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135.

Check your own state’s legislative history and determine the year when the State replaced personal liberty - the natural right to travel by automobile on public roads - with the privilege to “drive” a “motor vehicle”, subject to licensing, registration, and taxation. Determine exactly WHO is subject to and object of said law(s).
 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
1. If you want to see changes to our railway regulations, I agree with that, we need to modernize them and modernize everything about our railway system. That is something I hope we get to see if the Senate gets to curb the issue with filibusters in January so that they can get some of these things corrected. We really need to update our rail system.

2. You need to read the history of Robert Moses if you wish to talk about the subways in NYC. He was in control of that and was hugely against rail, he believed in highway expansions and wanted to turn NYC into an auto city, I am happy he finally failed at that pipedream and is finally expanding the subways that should of happened back during that era.
1. The simplest remedy is to get the Federal government out of the way. . . entirely.

2. LaGuardia was no slouch, himself. He helped stifle it, long before Mr. Moses.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,176,592 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
[1] Researchers have also uncovered political corruption, with covert payouts to government officials to look the other way. In one PBS expose, a researcher found evidence of bribery - where outgoing commissioners were "given" lucrative Cadillac dealerships, etc, etc. After their assistance, of course.
That doesn't surprise me, nor does it change what I said about auto companies buying up efficient rail lines, closing them down, and turning cities into car focused cities and regions.


Quote:
[2] Actually, that is not true. Take a trip into the records bureau sometime. In the past, the roads belonged to the owners of adjacent land. They granted a "right of way" which was reciprocated. Also known as personal liberty - the RIGHT to travel by horse, wagon or AUTOMOBILE - not a privilege requiring licensing by the State.
I was talking about highways, not roads. Also when roads belong to the adjacent land owner they were dirt roads. Today the city repaves the roads not the adjacent land owners....unless you wish to go back to an era of uneven roads that vary in pavement types.


Quote:
[3] I have a problem with COMPULSORY taxation, under threat, duress and or coercion, to fund anything beyond securing rights and governing those who consent. And when the government mismanages things, what is their response? Ask for more taxes from the people to clean up their mess!
Actually when government mismanages something, you can often times vote them out of office. Also this doesn't change the fact that this is something for the general public. However if you are saying we should have public rail lines and private rail companies, then I see no problems with that.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,176,592 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
1. The simplest remedy is to get the Federal government out of the way. . . entirely.

2. LaGuardia was no slouch, himself. He helped stifle it, long before Mr. Moses.
The highway system was designed and run by the government, I don't see any private company willing to invest several billion dollars on HSR in our country, now I could see private industry working with government to run the rail companies on public rail lines.

LaGuardia put Moses in charge of those things, the mistake LaGuardia made was not firing Moses before he got too big, if he would of done that, NYC's subway system would be much better than what it is today, which is still a really good rail system.
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