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View Poll Results: Should we build the HSR network
Yes 192 60.57%
No 125 39.43%
Voters: 317. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,063,511 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
- - - Elmer T. Peterson *(Misattributed to De Tocqueville)
Fortunately, in America's case, we're promised a "republican form" wherein the individual is sovereign, and the government is his servant, not his ruler.
So you support if the majority wants something like this, then it should happen, if government is the servant, then it should serve the needs of the public, and if the majority of the public wants something then the government should serve that need.

Unless you are saying that the US needs to be turned over to a dictatorship, then a monarchy so that government can become the ruler rather than the servant....is that what you ultimately want for our country?

 
Old 12-04-2012, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,278,476 times
Reputation: 20827
The link below serves as an example of the slow-but-real progress that can be made by and for American passenger rail systems.

Amtrak Makes A Significant Step Towards High Speed Rail

The line in question has always been the dominant passsenger rail option for Chicago-St. Louis traffic, primarily because it runs via the state capital at Springified -- therefore, the politicians and their groupies have a direct interest in it.

In addition, the downsizing of the physical rail network has allowed "landlord" freight railroad Union Pacific to divert almost all its traffic to another route via Danvile, Ill; what little local pickup and delivery is still needed can be done overnight, with fewer congestion and safety concerns.

This is how the development of High Speed Rail in America is almost certain to evolve; the large-scale networks ballyhooed in the original post are usually conceived by people who have little or no knowedge of the physical obstacles and the high costs they impose -- or that both globailzation and the demographics of a graying American population are likely to price the "big Lionel set" out of our reach.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
1,264 posts, read 1,546,971 times
Reputation: 768
^^Now that i think about it, We already have kind of a "shiny Loniel" in the northeast



Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, DC & More - Acela Express | Amtrak

The good news is that it runs on a profit too.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,392,631 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
^^Now that i think about it, We already have kind of a "shiny Loniel" in the northeast



Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, DC & More - Acela Express | Amtrak

The good news is that it runs on a profit too.
Too bad it's not High Speed. It's a nice ride but calling it HSR is a stretch.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,789,845 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Too bad it's not High Speed. It's a nice ride but calling it HSR is a stretch.
It goes 135mph which is HSR by Global standards...

HSR 125-300mph+
 
Old 12-04-2012, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,670,325 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post

The good news is that it runs on a profit too.
I seriously doubt that.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 08:13 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,789,845 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
I seriously doubt that.
High Speed Rail and Short Distance Intercity operates a profit....long distance does not...
 
Old 12-05-2012, 07:11 AM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,561,141 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
The line in question...Chicago-St. Louis...via the state capital at Springified...is how the development of High Speed Rail in America is almost certain to evolve; the large-scale networks ballyhooed in the original post are usually conceived by people who have little or no knowedge of the physical obstacles and the high costs they impose -- or that both globailzation and the demographics of a graying American population are likely to price the "big Lionel set" out of our reach.
Chicago-St. Louis is about 300 miles, which is smack in the middle of the 150-500 mile range most experts agree is optimal for HSR routes. I would agree that a trans-continental HSR isn't realistic or even desirable, but as your link shows, runs between major cities of about that distance are eminently feasible.

The other side of the coin is also reflected in your link: improved passenger rail in the U.S. isn't only about shiny new train engines - it's also about organization and efficiency, such as moving freight traffic to different lines or different time windows in order to improve passenger schedules.

This really isn't that hard: rational improvements in planning and execution combined with relatively inexpensive improvements in existing rail infrastructure, topped off with judicious deployment of advanced HSR technology in strategic locations. It's the sort of elementary planning any decent staff officer can manage in five minutes straight from a deep sleep. It shouldn't be beyond the capactiy of 310 million Americans.
 
Old 12-05-2012, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,627,700 times
Reputation: 24860
Default Please apply

Squarian -

Please apply for the job as chief planner for the North American Rail System. Your post makes more sense than all the others on this thread.
 
Old 12-05-2012, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,392,631 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
It goes 135mph which is HSR by Global standards...

HSR 125-300mph+
For a very limited stretch due to congestion and right-of-way issues. Average speed is closer to 70.
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