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Old 11-30-2012, 02:56 PM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,061,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
It's the secret scuttlebutt in Washington: plans in DC to seize the trillions in retirement accounts to shore up Social Security, Medicare and other foundering programs that make up the 16 trillion dollar national debt. And with roughly 16 trillion dollars sitting in private retirement accounts right now, turning it all over to the federal govt to manage seems like the ideal ticket to solving our fiscal problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sOPPtlW0bs

I have no issues with govt seizing the accounts. They have to get then money somewhere and 401k's seem as good a source as any, given the staggering amount of money being held in them and the staggering debt we have to find a way to deal with.

What I'd like to know and what I cannot find out by researching on the Internet is whether this means that the plan they are trying to set up to distribute the 401k monies to beneficiaries is a ruse to wipe out the Social Security program and replace it with this new scheme. Anyone have any answer on whether this program is designed to replace SS, or just supplement it?
It's designed to steal our money, so the politicians can spend it, plain and simple.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:07 PM
 
3,744 posts, read 2,579,276 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
We have already established that those of us lucky enough to have an employer who offers us a 401k can also open up an IRA,
It isn't luck, as you have so foolishly asserted.

But then some of us are not so ill-prepared for adulthood that we have to take whatever anyone is willing to offer us - this probably doesn't include you, I suspect, so you think it is luck. Just like it is luck that Tiger Woods wins so many gold tournaments. Nothing but luck - right?????
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:10 PM
 
3,744 posts, read 2,579,276 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
They don't have the government essentially mailing them a check because they saved in a 401k.
The government isn't mailing anyone a check, actually or virtually. They are just NOT getting as big a check mailed to them, and believe me, it breaks my heart.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:45 PM
 
4,190 posts, read 4,373,247 times
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That still won't provide enough money for this administration. The next tax will be a wealth tax on people's savings, car, home, business etc.....
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:09 PM
 
3,744 posts, read 2,579,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
That still won't provide enough money for this administration.
There is no such thing.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:37 PM
 
26,577 posts, read 51,948,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
No, talking points. The reality of looking at my paycheck and seeing that the government is giving me money to save for retirement, that is a government program.

I say it again, there is a tax rate on income. You save money in a retirement account oftentimes with a company match and the governments says because you saved money in a retirement account we are going to lower you taxable income.

This is the Same thing as the government collecting taxes on your income throughout the year and then sending you a check because you saved money in a retirement account.

It is government spending. It is a government program. And that is objective reality.
I wish my employer would offer a 401k... let alone a match.

My understanding is a 401k only defers taxes from the present to the future and the future is not set in stone. Is this not correct?

It's hard to miss something you've never had...

The same people pushing the retirement plans always had the charts showing a little saved each check will grow into a big pile down the road... of course the ones I saw at the bank were either based on 6 or 8% returns...

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 11-30-2012 at 06:12 PM..
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:57 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,671,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Man you cats are so dishonest. That is the whole trick of the 401k as well, I was told when I first signed up for it that probably my tax rate would be lower when I retire and combined with the company match and the immediate tax savings, I understood as a huge government gift.
Well there you go. You were told something (probably by a 401k rep) and since you don't really understand it you have some misconceptions.

What will the top tax tier be in 2035? That's right! You don't know, therefore there is no guarantee you will be in a lower tax bracket. None. You are basing your entire argument on this and calling others "idiots" when you are just speculating on events and conditions decades away.

Quote:
To me that is the same as the government mailing me a check because I saved in a 401k plan.
That is a silly analogy, because you didn't get the money. You weren't taxed on it, but you didn't get and you will be taxed on it when you do get it.

Quote:
Again, it doesn't matter if they save in an IRA or not. I have a 401k and a roth IRA, while the most they can have is an IRA. I am getting a government benefit/handout that they aren't. Their taxable income is not lowered from their 401k.
Their taxable income is lowered from a deductible IRA, just like a 401k. Again I'd wager that the number of people who have no 401k available and are affected by the lower annual contribution limit of a deductible IRA is insignificant.

Quote:
I know, I know it hurts, rugged individualists getting government handouts.
I don't consider myself rugged or individualistic so I'm not sure where you are going with this that you keep repeating. It isn't a case of individualism, it is a case of understanding that tax deferred is not the same as tax free.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:01 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,671,690 times
Reputation: 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
My understanding is a 401k only defers taxes from the present to the future and the future is not set in stone. Is this not correct?
Correct. That is what is so funny about Iamme's continued wailing about people who contribute to 401ks are getting some huge break.

If the tax rates are significantly higher down the road, or if they are just fortunate enough to live a wealthier lifestyle and draw a much larger taxable income stream, they just might pay higher taxes on that money upon withdrawing it.
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