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First, having the UN dictate anything to the US is a bad idea.
Dictate?
Quote:
Second, he (Stossel) isn't saying that we should be EXACTLY like Singapore. He's only pointing out a few positive aspects about their system of healthcare.
But not how it may be intertwined with the rest for the whole system. For example, Singapore runs government health plan and hospitals, chosen by nearly 80% of the people.
Funny thing is, the vast majority of today's Libertarians support LEGAL pot, and some probably would take said hippy up on his offer.
Who we think of as Libertarians have to find a new moniker.
Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin tell their followers they are libertarians and all of a sudden a bunch of neocons think they conceived the libertarian movement.
I did not state that Singapore is "great for business" because it has no minimum wage and if that is the videos position, then that is their opinion, not what I stated as mine. I have no opinion as to why they are a success as it would take deeper analysis of their system to even begin to make assumptions as to why they are successful (ie too many variables).
I did state that no minimum wage or like obtrusive legislation that was mentioned is libertarian principal.
So, let us recap the exchange:
Yeah, Libertarian ideology certainly would not advocate harsh penalties or death penalties for drug use, or possession. Libertarian they are not.
Your response: Yet no minimum wage or infringing laws such as disability laws we see in Europe are libertarian principals.
You argued for libertarian principles by putting Singapore on a pedestal (and opposite Europe) in response to what is clearly defines the state of governance in Singapore. These are the kind of assumptions that demonstrate a propensity to cherry pick without any concern for the overall picture and how it all fits within a society.
I addressed a similar issue above, where steven_h ignores the fact that Singapore's health care system is largely public, and assumes it to be inconsequential.
This is why you shouldn't try to pretend that something works because 2% of that idea was implemented... just ignore the 98%.
I cringe every time some "libertarian" gives Singapore as an example.
I have family that moved there from Vietnam and from what they tell me, Singapore is very strict and there's plenty of taxes. Americans seem to forget that there's many other ways to tax people besides the income tax.
Singapore also has isolationist policies in place at least for real estate. If Obama proposed to model our healthcare or property taxes after Singapore's then the Republicans would cry socialism and say it was the end of the world.
So, let us recap the exchange:
Yeah, Libertarian ideology certainly would not advocate harsh penalties or death penalties for drug use, or possession. Libertarian they are not.
Your response: Yet no minimum wage or infringing laws such as disability laws we see in Europe are libertarian principals.
You argued for libertarian principles by putting Singapore on a pedestal (and opposite Europe) in response to what is clearly defines the state of governance in Singapore. These are the kind of assumptions that demonstrate a propensity to cherry pick without any concern for the overall picture and how it all fits within a society.
False. I did not argue the bold. Please quote me directly to provide support for that claim. I stated that those were libertarian principals, period. I also stated that I agreed that the aspects of increasing minimum wage, disability laws, etc... impede a free system. That is what I stated, the rest is an argument of your own making.
Who we think of as Libertarians have to find a new moniker.
Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin tell their followers they are libertarians and all of a sudden a bunch of neocons think they conceived the libertarian movement.
Sarah Palin calling herself a Libertarian??? RIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGHT!!!!! I'm not disputing you, but you and I both know that she is no Libertarian. If she is a Libertarian, then I'm the Pope.
You were cherry picking. But I already addressed this above.
You made the accusation, I showed how you were falsely summarizing me and you continue to claim it anyway. At this point, you are making yourself look foolish.
The issue is that Stossel is an ideological idiot.
No Singapore doesn't have a minimum wage... it doesn't need one.
It has shrinking workforce, strong trade unions and a triparte labor relations scheme between government, unions and businesses that work to keep wages rising.
Proposals for wage reform--a "flexi-wage policy"--were announced in mid-November 1986 and became effective with the enactment of the 1988 Employment (Amendment) Act. Under this plan, the basic wage remained relatively stable with adjustments for good or bad years made by increasing or reducing the annual bonus. Negotiating the size of the bonus--frozen to the equivalent of one month's salary since 1972--was left to employers and unions, who would be able to bargain for its retention, abolition, or modification. Profit-sharing, productivity incentive, and employee share plans were encouraged to ensure that high wage payments awarded in fat years were not perpetuated in lean years and that individual as well as company productivity, growth, profitability, competitiveness, and prospects for the industry were taken into account. The government was anxious that wages not increase precipitously. This concern was shared by management, which worried about shrinking profit margins resulting from higher operating costs. Workers, on the other hand, wanted to share in the benefits of the economic boom after giving up wage increases to help cope with the 1985 recession.
On top of that Singapore labor relations look more like Soviet era labor relations than anything approaching unionization in any other democratic nation and sure as hell isn't anything approaching anything familiar with "Libertarian ideals" whatever that might be this hour. As an example, the head of the the National Transport Workers’ Union, sits on the board of SMRT the "privatized" public transportation company, and was Minister for Trade and Industry under the ruling party.
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