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You are chronically incapable of grasping the concept of pyramid. Nothing is stopping able-bodied adults from trying to lift a loaded 18 wheeler or trying to win a lottery. Trying is easy and unlimited, achieving is limited by the external forces. People can pursue all $ and status they want, what they can reach as collective is limited by the shape of the social pyramid they live in. Or you think that all chicken in an old fashioned coop could fit to the upper most ledge provided enough of efforts?
So you think that all folks at the bottom layers of the social pyramid can move up provided enough of efforts on their part? It doesn't make arithmetic/geometrical/political sense. Sorry.
Or you advocate social revolution/transformation of some kind. According to you, if every tries hard, he would reach top layers of the social pyramid. If so, pyramid will no longer be a pyramid, it's gonna be a flat plane, communism of a sort. Everybody is upper class, everybody is making 7 figures, everybody does nothing useful, everybody just strategizes and visualizes and please each other in every possible way, etc.. You seriously need to think over standard American cradle to grave brain conditioning.
I understand that narcissism affects your ability to grasp simple geometrical and social concepts. It's silly to extend recipe of an individual success onto society at large since great deal of your "success" is due to the failures of other wage units who serve your needs for less. There is no success without failures of others who serve you for less.
You can't be serious, can you? In rigid class society where everyone follows your pass to "success" and glory all fast food, janitorial and fruit pickers would have a college degree and low wages. If you didn't know, tens of thousands of Ph.D.s already work for more or less fast food wages because their fields are glutted with folks who followed the simple path of yours.
You pretend as though you are in "control". You are not, your food, your shelter, your $ depends on the things way out of your control and understanding. More than that, you don't even know what global forces affect your ability to feed yourself not speaking of controlling those forces. Again, personal narcissism cannot resolve larger societal problem.
You wrote all that to basically say that you don't think people can achieve by putting forth a solid effort? LOL
Well, guess what. They can. NO ONE said anything about "Everybody is upper class, everybody is making 7 figures..." That's a figment of your own fallacious imagination. Why? Because success is relative. What you deem successful I may consider a low-outcome. What I consider an achievable high-outcome, you may consider an impossibility. Why is this lost on you? Your whole philosophy is that a person is born into some sort of destiny that they have no control over because of some sort of "pyramid" that you believe exists in perpetutity with pre-determined occupants at every level.
Climbing the "pyramid" is complete impossibility in your world.
Do you see the problem with your thinking? You simply believe that everyone is stuck in a station in life, wherever that may fall, and that merely existing in that circumstance is enough to keep them there, no matter what they do, no matter where they go, no matter who they connect with, no matter how hard they try.
I fundamentally disagree with your ideology. You can stay stuck at the bottom of the "pyramid." Apparently that's where you want to be, where you feel you'll be stuck for the rest of your life. As for me, I will continue to succeed.
"Burger flipper isn't making enough? Well nothing's stopping him from getting a Masters in Engineering from Harvard!!!"
See, this is the problem. On one hand we have a poster talking about a burger flipper saving money and another who jokes about getting an engineering degree from Harvard. You folks are not realistic even in the slightest.
A "burger flipper" would only have the slightest means of saving money due to low wages, no matter where he/she lived, including low cost of living areas. The location is completely irrelevant. So why are we even suggesting that being a financially well-off burger flipper can or should exist anywhere? Fallacious strawman.
And then we have you talking about the burger flipper earning an engineering degree from Harvard. This is just plain ignorant. While no one is necessarily preventing the burger flipper from going to Harvard, the more realistic scenario is that of the burger flipper going to a community college to get the basics knocked out, followed by a transfer to an in-state university to get a degree in engineering. This is a very possible scenario, as it happens thousands of times every single year.
This is why liberals can't be taken seriously. Neither of you can defend yourself from the OP, so you throw around irrational strawman arguments as if you have a point worth considering.
The "stuck at the bottom of the pyramid" is how liberals look at life and gives them excuses to scream and cry how nothing is fair. You can see it throughout the last few pages on this very thread. The last two pages were nothing but made up reasons for why certain folks can't climb the ladder. Waaaa how are you supposed to work without a car. Waaaa how can somebody get two jobs when there are only 3 million available. Well I look at it as there are 3 million jobs available. Two shouldn't be very hard to find if you want em. My son just turned 16 old enough to work at most places, filled out an app at a grocery store had an interview and was hired. How he can do it and a lefty whining that they can't find a job, any job, with all their degree's and the like just makes me laugh.
I believe if you work hard and are smart about it, you will succeed.
Unfortunately, applying this in the real world is a motherf*cker.
It's an even bigger motherf*cker when you haven't been taught the tools or don't even know of the tools.
It's like all the poor white folk that get upset at minorities going to college and they make excuses about how they can't get money like them to go to college. Last time I checked, student loans are available to everyone if you choose not to work your way through it. If there is a will there is a way. THAT has always been true in this country.
But, if you will is broken, it's a motherf*cker.
History has shown that it is incredibly easy to break a person's will.
So, my question to the OP: What do you think should be done? Getting mad about it won't solve a damn thing. Getting on a soapbox and preaching commonly know methods to success haven't solved a damn thing. So, what do you think should be done to remedy the situation?
I await patiently. It's the Friday before I go on vacation for the remainder of the year.
Every person is independent. Every person can do what they want to do. Nothing is stopping an able-bodied adult from pursuing bigger and better. NOTHING.
The only obstacle in most cases is perpetually bad decision-making. People make one bad decision after another, as if that's the only way to go about life.
Nothing stood in my way. I didn't make bad decisions. In fact, I attribute my success to all of the good decisions I made.
So why is it hard for everyone else to follow the simple path of graduating high school, getting a job/learning a skill/going to college, remain crime free, get married when economics allow, have kids when economics allow, save money, live within your means, and repeat the cycle?
What's so hard about this?? According to your logic, this is the hard path to take, not the easy path. Feel free to elaborate why you seemingly feel this way.
My apparently worthless 6-year old nephew who still cannot talk or stand might have some issues with that simple path. His bad decision was contracting a disease that all the doctors at Stanford were never able to diagnose.
My apparently worthless valedictorian friend in high school who was shot to death on grad night had some issues with that cycle. His bad decision was walking outside at the wrong time.
(Remembering Willie Page 1 of 3 | UTSanDiego.com)
No, those are not the numbers. He's pulled those out of his ass. His assumption is that in optimal economic conditions, EVERY single person is employed. This is not true. "Full employment" is considered in the 4% unemployment range.
His simple mind and simple calculations won't allow him to consider these incovenient truths. That's why he keeps spouting them even after he's been told he's wrong.
You do know that what is considered "Full Employment" changes over time. It wasn't too long ago when people were referring to 5% as "Full Employment". There is no magic number, it is just the collective opinion of economic analysts.
See, this is the problem. On one hand we have a poster talking about a burger flipper saving money and another who jokes about getting an engineering degree from Harvard. You folks are not realistic even in the slightest.
Says the guy whose solution to people trying to live on McD's wages in NYC is to leave NYC... so that they can still not live on even lower McD wages? Understand this: McD wages are not static; they change depending on the CoL. They will always be on the lowest rung of wages, regardless of where you live.
Quote:
A "burger flipper" would only have the slightest means of saving money due to low wages, no matter where he/she lived, including low cost of living areas. The location is completely irrelevant. So why are we even suggesting that being a financially well-off burger flipper can or should exist anywhere? Fallacious strawman.
And yet you advocate him saving money, traveling to a new area to find the same job, to do exactly what you're saying he can't do -- survive on McD wages.
Quote:
And then we have you talking about the burger flipper earning an engineering degree from Harvard. This is just plain ignorant. While no one is necessarily preventing the burger flipper from going to Harvard, the more realistic scenario is that of the burger flipper going to a community college to get the basics knocked out, followed by a transfer to an in-state university to get a degree in engineering. This is a very possible scenario, as it happens thousands of times every single year.
This is the pie-in-the-sky break from the reality that Conservatives suffer from. Engineering isn't just something you succeed at just by trying. You actually have to be good at higher level math and conceptualizing. This retarded catch-all of "just get X degree" assumes that everyone can literally do everything, like the only thing stopping people from being neurosurgeons, chemist, etc. is that just didn't try enough.
Quote:
This is why liberals can't be taken seriously. Neither of you can defend yourself from the OP, so you throw around irrational strawman arguments as if you have a point worth considering.
I asked you earlier how would someone whose skillsets only qualify them for low wage jobs supposed to survive on low wages w/o gov't assistance? Your answer: get a better job. Do you need me to breakdown why that answer was ridiculous?
When I asked you earlier what should a person who can't afford the basics of life on a low wage job in NYC is supposed to do? Your answer: move to another city. Again, do you need me to break down why that's a ridiculous answer?
How about a third try for you to see the light: Do you believe everyone is capable of grasping all the subject matter to complete an engineering degree?
The "stuck at the bottom of the pyramid" is how liberals look at life and gives them excuses to scream and cry how nothing is fair. You can see it throughout the last few pages on this very thread. The last two pages were nothing but made up reasons for why certain folks can't climb the ladder. Waaaa how are you supposed to work without a car. Waaaa how can somebody get two jobs when there are only 3 million available. Well I look at it as there are 3 million jobs available. Two shouldn't be very hard to find if you want em. My son just turned 16 old enough to work at most places, filled out an app at a grocery store had an interview and was hired. How he can do it and a lefty whining that they can't find a job, any job, with all their degree's and the like just makes me laugh.
So your solution to get people off gov't assistance is to work in a grocery store? What if working two low-wage jobs still doesn't earn you enough to afford rent, food, and utilities?
My apparently worthless 6-year old nephew who still cannot talk or stand might have some issues with that simple path. His bad decision was contracting a disease that all the doctors at Stanford were never able to diagnose.
My apparently worthless valedictorian friend in high school who was shot to death on grad night had some issues with that cycle. His bad decision was walking outside at the wrong time.
(Remembering Willie Page 1 of 3 | UTSanDiego.com)
Your simple path is rarely so simple.
I don't think your anecdotes even come close to the group of people described in the OP.
Nice deflection.
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