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As much as I detest the illogical comparison between guns and cars, I'll address this one.
Last time I looked you can be held responsible for a drunk driver killing someone. If you provide alcohol to someone, that person becomes drunk, drives a vehicle and causes an accident, you can under some circumstances be held liable.
In the same way I have NO issue holding a gun owner legally liable if their lawfully acquired weapons find their way into the hands of someone who uses them to harm someone or destroy something AND that gun owner was negligent in taking appropriate measures to ensure that those weapons were not properly secured.
Do you have an issue with holding a gun owner morally liable if they have nothing to do with a crime, liable simply because they own a weapon?
Because that's what's being argued against here. Holding all gun owners morally responsible for the Newtown shooting.
Talking about a high level of insensitivity. So what, we just stop trying to protect our kids now?
You either don’t have kids or you don’t love them, just based on your post. Or your mom and dad didn’t hug you much.
More straw man leftist arguments.
As I said, possessing freedom and rights inherently involves danger. If the primary goal in life is to keep everyone safe or to not offend anyone, then we will give away all of our rights. So yes, I do think our rights as a nation do transcend the safety and feelings of any one individual. That said, banning guns might keep your kids safe from nutjobs in school, but it doesn't keep them safe when someone breaks into your house and rapes your wife and kids before murdering them. But that's OK, you can feel smug and morally superior in the fact that you didn't have a gun. You might even feel guilty because society didn't do enough for the poor perpetrator.
BTW, I'm tired of hearing leftist talk about insensitivity. You all say that its conservatives' fault these things happen, but look in the mirror. All of this liberal BS is a large part of where we are today. It was insensitive to put these kooks in mental institutions. It's insensitive to for these kids to think they are anything but special little snowflakes when, in reality, they are little monsters. They grow up feeling entitled and when they don't get their way, they go shoot up schools or movie theaters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerbear30
And War Beagle--I appreciate your ability to calmly reason, but if you extend that ability to your own thinking I think you'll find the flaw in not being willing to give up your own "freedom" for children. I can understand the appeal of "freedom" as a kind of founding myth or something but in day to day life, it is pure foolishness. We are creatures of obligation. Even language itself is a compromise. "Freedom," as the country singer Jim White writes, "is just a stupid superstition." I give it up for my son everyday--gladly.
That's your prerogative, but don't expect others to give their rights away peacefully.
You ever go to the range? Any idea what a PITA it is to have to reload every 10 shots?
Yes, when I first purchased the gun I did go to a firing range a few times.
Some probably can, in the hands of a skilled enough gunsmith. But when was the last time you remember hearing about an automatic weapon being used in a crime? Without going to google, I'm not sure I've EVER heard of it happening.
Well, it happened A LOT in the 1920s. Remember the Tommygun? LE was getting trounced by the gangsters until they were able to match that firepower. As a matter of fact, my mother grew up in Chicago and when she was just a small child was almost killed by one of those! I think she was outside on a library step or something...don't really remember the details.
I have no idea what case it is you're talking about, but I very seriously doubt someone would be sent to prison for a legitimate malfunction.
I think the person lived in Washington or Oregon? It was a few years ago, and YES he was found guilty. I don't remember what sentence he received, though.
During the past 30 years or so there has been a focus on individual rights. IMO, the divide between liberal and conservative hinges on the rights of society vs. the rights of individuals.
It is not an all or nothing equation. I for one long for the day when individuals give a little to the group. Stuff like the way we drive on the freeway, whether we are informed voters, letting others deal with the running of the community because we are too busy or have important things to do, supporting people being paid a fair wage so that they are not dependent on the kindness of strangers or the county hospital.
I will gladly give up my right to own a weapon that will take out an entire classroom with one pull on trigger. I'll support no abortion after week 20 unless the mother is threatened. I'll pay more taxes to implement better mental health care. I'll gladly pay more taxes for all kinds of stuff, if that's what it takes.
We need to stop this pointless arguing about crap, while we watch our kids being gunned down on TV.
Do you have an issue with holding a gun owner morally liable if they have nothing to do with a crime, liable simply because they own a weapon?
Because that's what's being argued against here. Holding all gun owners morally responsible for the Newtown shooting.
Depending on the circumstances yes.
As a matter of fact I have already seen it happen down the road from me.
A couple of dumbass kids (late teens) were playing "target practice." One of them shot the other and he other kid became a paraplegic. As an aside I found it to be no great loss. This was a kid who would call his mother on his cell phone IN the house and ask her to bring up food. And she would. I knew the kid personally and fate picked the right person, it's not as if a person destined for greatness was cut down in his prime. But I digress.
The dumbass who was then wheelchair bound SUED the parents of the kid who accidentally shot him on the basis of the kid having ADHD. The idea was that the parents should have known better than to give their kid with ADHD access to guns. Never mind that these two were like two peas in a pod and that the kid who became a paraplegic presumably knew that his friend had ADHD.
So there is a mindset that assigns a moral responsibility to gun owners to ensure that not every idiot can get hold of their firearms, I didn't make that up.
Also there are certain circumstances where you may be required by law to keep your guns locked up. Back when one of my step-daughters was in her bad girl phase and ran afoul of the law, she was on probation. Hubby had to lock up the guns until she got off probation. And this in gun-loving NH.
How about if hypothetically Nancy Lanza instead of getting killed was on vacation in the Bahamas but left her kid at home under the supervision of a paid employee, but had trained the kid in the use of firearms, knew he was unstable, and gave her kid easy access to the guns? Would that be a case where you might find that she was morally if not legally culpable?
ETA I do not hold ALL gun owners morally liable. I AM a gun owner - not fanatical about it but I do own two myself. Nothing fancy and nothing expensive. My son-in-law who is a Boston cop taught me to shoot pistol, hubby taught me to shoot a rifle. I'm not a bad shot but I can't be bothered to hunt.
I will gladly give up my right to own a weapon that will take out an entire classroom with one pull on trigger.
But you can't buy a weapon that wipe out an entire classroom with one pull of the trigger. You have to get a very specialized federal permit to buy an automatic weapon.
What is or is not proper would likely depend on type of firearm and situation. For states to legislate as they see fit and for the courts to decide.
So we get pages and pages of new laws and regulations and it will do nothing to deter nuts from acquiring weapons illegally and killing folks like in this case. Genius!!!
As a matter of fact I have already seen it happen down the road from me.
A couple of dumbass kids (late teens) were playing "target practice." One of them shot the other and he other kid became a paraplegic. As an aside I found it to be no great loss. This was a kid who would call his mother on his cell phone IN the house and ask her to bring up food. And she would. I knew the kid personally and fate picked the right person, it's not as if a person destined for greatness was cut down in his prime. But I digress.
The dumbass who was then wheelchair bound SUED the parents of the kid who accidentally shot him on the basis of the kid having ADHD. The idea was that the parents should have known better than to give their kid with ADHD access to guns. Never mind that these two were like two peas in a pod and that the kid who became a paraplegic presumably knew that his friend had ADHD.
So there is a mindset that assigns a moral responsibility to gun owners to ensure that not every idiot can get hold of their firearms, I didn't make that up.
Also there are certain circumstances where you may be required by law to keep your guns locked up. Back when one of my step-daughters was in her bad girl phase and ran afoul of the law, she was on probation. Hubby had to lock up the guns until she got off probation. And this in gun-loving NH.
How about if hypothetically Nancy Lanza instead of getting killed was on vacation in the Bahamas but left her kid at home under the supervision of a paid employee, but had trained the kid in the use of firearms, knew he was unstable, and gave her kid easy access to the guns? Would that be a case where you might find that she was morally if not legally culpable?
ETA I do not hold ALL gun owners morally liable. I AM a gun owner - not fanatical about it but I do own two myself. Nothing fancy and nothing expensive. My son-in-law who is a Boston cop taught me to shoot pistol, hubby taught me to shoot a rifle. I'm not a bad shot but I can't be bothered to hunt.
And again, the conversation is about blaming ALL gun owners for the Newtown shootings.
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