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Was their mass starvation before the welfare programs were instituted?
Short answer: Yes?
Poverty was a lot worse before it. The inner cities were dreadful throughout much of history. Starvation was seen as a natural and necessary check on population.
But let's play devil's advocate and start with the premise that gun control is not the primary differentiating factor that explains this chart. Let's be open to other explanations. What other rational, evidence-based reasons are there as to why this chart looks the way it does? Serious answers are appreciated.
You're usually a reasonable guy, so I'll give you a reasonable answer.
1. Culture. It's undeniable that America has a violent culture. Why? I don't know, might have something to do with #2. But we are some violent mofos, in general.
2. History. See post 2. Our recent history (last couple hundred years) is more violent than most of the countries on your list. This also plays into the next on my list.
3. Demographics. Denmark, Estonia, etc. are not culturally divided. They do not have large swaths of people completely isolated from mainstream society, millions of people in poverty, immigrants, descendants of slaves who have still to this day not reached absolute equality. Take states with similar demographics to Europe, you'll see similar crime rates. I hate to play this card for the millionth time, but do check out the gun laws in Vermont.
4. Size. It is much more difficult to control larger borders, larger populations, etc. with gun laws. This also plays into the cultural segregation and isolation that creates friction.
5. Stricter drug laws. Our drug laws create huge criminal enterprises. Usually, when you have criminal enterprise, you get a little bit of violence along with it. Or so I've heard.
6. The availability of guns (bear with me). Obviously, more guns = more gun crime - relative to total crime. But really, this discussion is a stupid one if we're focusing only on gun violence, and this point only has relevance in that case, so it's stupid too.
I fail to see how death by gun is inherently worse than death by knife.
Your statistics are not very meaningful for that reason, and also because you're lumping together a huge country into one bar on your chart, while ignoring the fact that within that country, there are 50 states and hundreds of cities, many with different gun laws. I will also add that many of the cities that contribute huge portions to that bar on your chart have gun laws similar to those of Europe (not as strict, but much more strict than most low crime areas in the US). DC, Baltimore, Chicago, just those 3 make up probably 1,000 of those murders alone.
My apologies, I didn't know that you not being able to read the thread thoroughly made me arrogant. Next time I'll make sure to repeat what I've already addressed, just for you.
I am sure that no Aussies think letting the government take advantage of them was a mistake.
Can you tell us how a government in as much debt as ours is can use a "buy back" to get guns turned in and not go broke buying them back. How many billions would it take to buy all of them back. Surely you have some statistics about that.
I can tell you that many Aussies who allowed themselves to be taken in are sorry now. I communicate with some of them pretty often, and they tell me we should never allow that to happen. They feel that way because now only criminals have guns these days.
I dunno, how many billions does it cost society to lose 20 innocent children in 2 minutes? One of those dead children may have grown up and discovered the cure for cancer...we will never know.
How many billions to run the jails, to investigate and prosecute the guilty, operate and save the maimed, to mop up the blood afterwards? Can you put a dollar value on grief?
Perhaps the American Government can divert some of the gazillions they spend on defence, or putting someone on Mars, or invading other countries when their own is in a state of civil war?
Location, location, location.
Gun crimes cluster in certain areas.
I moved from a county that had a shooting every day, to one that last had a homicide 3 years ago.
Both counties were in the "Greater Metro Area," but the difference in geography was impressive.
This is a very straightforward inquiry. All I want is for someone to give me a well-reasoned and evidenced explanation as to why this chart looks the way it does with respect to the USA.
This compares the United States to other developed nations, which is the appropriate comparison, not to nations that have civil unrest or semi-functional/poorly developed social systems. There are nations that have higher rates of gun violence than we do, including Mexico and Brazil. But if you want to include them, go ahead - still, look at how many nations are to the left on the chart.
As you prepare your answer, note several things:
1. Crime in the USA has been on a downward trend, but even so, you can look at any data source on any website, and you will find clear, unmistakeable evidence that tells you that the USA as a huge statistical outlier in the developed world terms of gun deaths. And we've developed a world-wide reputation for the kinds of gun massacres that occurred yesterday.
2. Notice Switzerland, Finland, and Israel on the chart - they all have relatively widespread gun ownership but much lower homicide rates. They also have much tighter gun control laws than we do.
3. Notice, too, that these are many of the "liberal lifestyle" countries that are oftentimes derided for implementing "socialism."
4. The USA is among the top most heavily armed, if not the most heavily armed, nations on the planet. If more guns are the differentiating factor to make us safer, then we should be among the safest countries on the left-hand side of the chart, along with Switzerland, Finland, Israel, and all of the other nations off to the right with increasing bar sizes.
5. Finally, note that the USA has much more liberal gun control laws than all of these nations.
But let's play devil's advocate and start with the premise that gun control is not the primary differentiating factor that explains this chart. Let's be open to other explanations. What other rational, evidence-based reasons are there as to why this chart looks the way it does? Serious answers are appreciated.
too bad you dont include suicides by any causes in your figures. then the countrry of Japan would have a higher death rate than we would.
This is a very straightforward inquiry. All I want is for someone to give me a well-reasoned and evidenced explanation as to why this chart looks the way it does with respect to the USA.
Notice Switzerland, Finland, and Israel on the chart - they all have relatively widespread gun ownership but much lower homicide rates. They also have much tighter gun control laws than we do.
Its pretty easy to explain. The US treats it as a right and everywhere else its treated as a priviledge. Israeli military and police are heavily arms, but not the citizens.
Quote:
Gun owners in Israel are limited to owning one pistol, and must undergo extensive mental and physical tests before they can receive a weapon, and gun owners are limited to 50 rounds of ammunition per year.
Not all Israelis, however, may own guns. In order to own a pistol, an Israeli must for two years have been either a captain in the army or a former lieutenant colonel. Israelis with an equivalent rank in other security organizations may also own a pistol.
...
In Israel, assault rifles are banned except for special circumstances, such as communal self-defense in areas deemed to be a security risk. And while political violence in Israel is all too common and gun violence is a growing problem, random shootings of strangers – like the Aurora massacre -- are virtually unheard-of here.
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