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The OP speaks of "the debate" as if there should be one. Let me ask... If somebody was telling you that you could'nt any longer worship as you choose or speak as you wish would that be open to debate? Or would you basically tell them a big NO and walk away? If you sit down with anti-gun people and discuss it with the idea that we can compromise then you're adding legitimacy to their stance, where no legitimacy actually exists. You see we have this thing called the constitution which states we can have guns and that shall not be infringed upon. I don't need a lawyer or anybody else to interpret it or argue it. I can read. End of discussion.
The shear senseless brutality of the CT. school shootings has everybody on all sides of the gun issue on edge. Due to constant fear mongering by special interests on the extreme edges of both factions, we as a nation are fundamentally divided on the issue. We are at a crossroads as an effective society. This could be a rare opportunity to work together and find some realizations and solutions. It could also develop into the most polarizing issue our nation ever faced outside of slavery.
When one of these horrible incidents occur, both sides of the gun issue throw up their hands and actually agree that this shouldn't be happening. How to fix it is where they drift off the solutions. There are two fundamental ideologies at play here.
On the one hand, there are those who rightfully feel that there is a constitutional and human right to protect and defend yourself and your family. On the other, there is the belief that society as a whole should be able to be safe in their environment and government has the responsibility to create a system that works towards this end.
They are both right.
As an individual we should be safe and secure within the structure of our society and live without fear in our everyday being. We also have incorporated into our society the inalienable right of self defense and the ability to protect our person, valuables and family through our constitution.
The Supreme Court got it right when it ruled on the Heller decision. It affirmed the 2nd Amendment as an individual right and stood by the inalienable right of the individual to protect himself, family and society from a tyrannical government. By adding the "Subject to reasonable restrictions" clause, they affirmed the rights of the citizenry in general to be safe in their person and association by passing laws and restrictions determining socially accepted gun usage.
Have no doubt that restrictions are coming and coming soon. It is a sign of the times and society wants it. The question remains, will the two sides work together to craft reasonable restrictions or will they spin off into rigid absolutes? In that case, neither side will win nor will the American people. If all the assault weapons in the country are ever subject to government confiscation there would be an impossible legal and logistical complication and about 40 million pissed off, felons created overnight. Last time that happened was 1861.
By the same token, if the right is not willing to propose and endorse "reasonable restrictions" then the hammer of social condemnation will fall heavily on them.
The likely, rational scenario.
Assault type weapons currently in ownership will not be banned. They will be grandfathered in but most likely require registration under a new category of "not quite hunting but not quite machine gun" and require a tax stamp. Like machine guns, the government will know where they are and who has them.
All manner of large capacity assault weapons either imported or domestic will be banned from further manufacture or importation. As will high cap magazines and clips. Ten rounds will be the norm and the mag will not detach from the gun.
Manufacturers of firearms will immediately design rifles that look like assault rifles but meet the new regulations.
The gun show loophole will be closed and all purchasers of firearms from anybody will require an extensive background check.
The federal form 4473 will be much more invasive and there most likely will be a waiting period for firearms purchase.
The objective of new legislation will be to stop the proliferation of high capacity, assault type weapons from the general public and to screen intensively those who would purchase guns for competence and mental fitness.
This is probably the best deal we can get with the current public perception. We as responsible gun owners and defenders of the 2nd. Amendment are about to engage in a national dialogue of what constitutes "reasonable restrictions". I only hope the discussion on our part is carried out by rational, balanced individuals who will work in the best interests of our nation to protect the constitution while further insuring the safety of society as a whole.
In any case, the random mass murders will never stop no matter what laws are passed and I, like every other gun owner will gladly give up my guns when the other 145 million people have given up theirs. This is the challenge we, as a society, face.
Keep dreaming. None of this tripe will EVER see the light of day. A Liberal Wet Dream if there ever was one.
and I, like every other gun owner will gladly give up my guns when the other 145 million people have given up theirs. This is the challenge we, as a society, face.
Speak for yourself because theres a LOT of gun owners who don't feel the same way as you one bit. Every citizen giving up their guns would defeat perhaps the biggest purpose of the 2nd amendment which is to keep the government in check and prevent tyranny. Unless you're talking about the government/military also giving up their guns which of course would be absurd and result in us being taken over.
Besides, if everybody gave up their guns(and for the sake of argument, bombs and other more dangerous items than guns) then we would be in a society in which muscle and athleticism is king, and young thugs would be able to rob granny with ease. Perhaps some people want that kind of return to the middle ages but I prefer a world with the great equalizer that is the modern firearm.
The OP speaks of "the debate" as if there should be one. Let me ask... If somebody was telling you that you could'nt any longer worship as you choose or speak as you wish would that be open to debate? Or would you basically tell them a big NO and walk away? If you sit down with anti-gun people and discuss it with the idea that we can compromise then you're adding legitimacy to their stance, where no legitimacy actually exists. You see we have this thing called the constitution which states we can have guns and that shall not be infringed upon. I don't need a lawyer or anybody else to interpret it or argue it. I can read. End of discussion.
The Supreme court has stated that the right is subject to reasonable restrictions. We as a nation are about to have the discussion about what constitutes reasonable restrictions whether you, I, or anybody else likes it or not. As a gun owner and advocate of 2nd amendment rights are you going to be part of the solution or are you going to be perceived by society as a big part of the problem? Pick your poison. But it's going to happen and happen soon. Irregardless of your macho posturing.
I don't think we'll be having a debate myself. Just a bunch of knee jerk bills thrown at congress and the mob demanding they be passed. They will do nothing to curb any issues but hey it makes them look like they're doing something and that is all that really matters.
I don't think we'll be having a debate myself. Just a bunch of knee jerk bills thrown at congress and the mob demanding they be passed. They will do nothing to curb any issues but hey it makes them look like they're doing something and that is all that really matters.
That may be, but I guess the unfortunately alternative is the preservation status quo of more and more guns in the hands of everyone with a pulse, which is all conservatives seem to have to offer in the face of these kinds of massacres. More of the same! A lot of good that has done.
These kinds of massacres have been going on for the last hundred years. You act as though some uptick in guns is the cause of it and it's not. You gun banners think that will solve everything and it will only make things worse like everything the government tries to intervene into. Use the war on drugs as your example. Open borders would make it impossible to keep guns out of the US even if they were to confiscate the ones we have now which would be virtually impossible too. So go pass your kneejerk regulations if you can and feel like you saved the world. YOu didn't.
The shear senseless brutality of the CT. school shootings has everybody on all sides of the gun issue on edge. Due to constant fear mongering by special interests on the extreme edges of both factions, we as a nation are fundamentally divided on the issue. We are at a crossroads as an effective society. This could be a rare opportunity to work together and find some realizations and solutions. It could also develop into the most polarizing issue our nation ever faced outside of slavery.
When one of these horrible incidents occur, both sides of the gun issue throw up their hands and actually agree that this shouldn't be happening. How to fix it is where they drift off the solutions. There are two fundamental ideologies at play here.
On the one hand, there are those who rightfully feel that there is a constitutional and human right to protect and defend yourself and your family. On the other, there is the belief that society as a whole should be able to be safe in their environment and government has the responsibility to create a system that works towards this end.
They are both right.
As an individual we should be safe and secure within the structure of our society and live without fear in our everyday being. We also have incorporated into our society the inalienable right of self defense and the ability to protect our person, valuables and family through our constitution.
The Supreme Court got it right when it ruled on the Heller decision. It affirmed the 2nd Amendment as an individual right and stood by the inalienable right of the individual to protect himself, family and society from a tyrannical government. By adding the "Subject to reasonable restrictions" clause, they affirmed the rights of the citizenry in general to be safe in their person and association by passing laws and restrictions determining socially accepted gun usage.
Have no doubt that restrictions are coming and coming soon. It is a sign of the times and society wants it. The question remains, will the two sides work together to craft reasonable restrictions or will they spin off into rigid absolutes? In that case, neither side will win nor will the American people. If all the assault weapons in the country are ever subject to government confiscation there would be an impossible legal and logistical complication and about 40 million pissed off, felons created overnight. Last time that happened was 1861.
By the same token, if the right is not willing to propose and endorse "reasonable restrictions" then the hammer of social condemnation will fall heavily on them.
The likely, rational scenario.
Assault type weapons currently in ownership will not be banned. They will be grandfathered in but most likely require registration under a new category of "not quite hunting but not quite machine gun" and require a tax stamp. Like machine guns, the government will know where they are and who has them.
All manner of large capacity assault weapons either imported or domestic will be banned from further manufacture or importation. As will high cap magazines and clips. Ten rounds will be the norm and the mag will not detach from the gun.
Manufacturers of firearms will immediately design rifles that look like assault rifles but meet the new regulations.
The gun show loophole will be closed and all purchasers of firearms from anybody will require an extensive background check.
The federal form 4473 will be much more invasive and there most likely will be a waiting period for firearms purchase.
The objective of new legislation will be to stop the proliferation of high capacity, assault type weapons from the general public and to screen intensively those who would purchase guns for competence and mental fitness.
This is probably the best deal we can get with the current public perception. We as responsible gun owners and defenders of the 2nd. Amendment are about to engage in a national dialogue of what constitutes "reasonable restrictions". I only hope the discussion on our part is carried out by rational, balanced individuals who will work in the best interests of our nation to protect the constitution while further insuring the safety of society as a whole.
In any case, the random mass murders will never stop no matter what laws are passed and I, like every other gun owner will gladly give up my guns when the other 145 million people have given up theirs. This is the challenge we, as a society, face.
These kinds of massacres have been going on for the last hundred years. You act as though some uptick in guns is the cause of it and it's not. You gun banners think that will solve everything and it will only make things worse like everything the government tries to intervene into. Use the war on drugs as your example. Open borders would make it impossible to keep guns out of the US even if they were to confiscate the ones we have now which would be virtually impossible too. So go pass your kneejerk regulations if you can and feel like you saved the world. YOu didn't.
And yet somehow it works in every other first-world nation, including heavily militarized ones.
Do all your wonderful countries have open borders running north and south and let everybody and anybody in along with drugs and weapons? We aren't every other country. Look you folks got your open borders. Now you want to ban guns but your first wish won't allow that to happen. Or are you going to search every illegal coming across for weapons and of course then you will scream about profiling. You created the mess on the borders and now because of it you can't stop the flow of contraband into the US. Enjoy.
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