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Wow, I just checked the date to make sure I hadn't ended up in a time warp. Apparently not. There have been a few good responses, but frankly I am shocked at the lack of absolute OUTRAGE toward the initial question!
Are you kidding me? Why are they allowed to go to the same schools as "normal" kids? I don't even know where to begin, as my mind is absolutely blown by this question.
Our Federal law addresses the rights of children with disabilities. The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) requires school systems to provide services to children with disabilities. These children are entitled to a free and appropriate education (FAPE), which is to be provided in the least restrictive environment (LRE).
What does all that mean? It means that, whenever possible, children should be educated with their peers. Often the best solution for disabled children is to give them full access to the same learning environment as their non-disabled peers.
The "separate but equal" idea from the OP reeks of discrimination, and turns my stomach.
Auststic kids, cognitively challenged kids, blind kids, deaf kids, kids in wheelchairs... They are still kids, and should not be made to feel less than their non-disabled peers.
When we came here 13 years ago we noticed that our kids were in the same school as kids with autism and we still don't understand why kids who are mentally challenged are in the same school as others.
Our son is in the gifted advanced program since Middle school and the gifted advanced division was in the same hall way as the kids who were also named "gifted" but were given that name because of their mentally state...
I don't want to be disrespectful but coming from Europe where they have special schools for kids with the same issues, I was not used to this and from witnessing what happened in his school and how difficult it is to handle some of these kids, to me there should be a different school for them.
Inmy sons case some of the kids with autism have run into other class rooms on a daily base and some have ruined some stuff and nobody was allowed to do anything only the teachers who are in charge for the kids with autism are allowed to touch them or help them or say anything to them.
I have a lot of respect for these teachers since it is very hard for them and not everybody can do what they do and they deserve the utmost respect.
Having said this, I don't believe these kids should be in the regular school system and I mean that for both sides.
I know many parents will be upset with me for saying this out loud but I have seen what kind of help they get in Holland and know that it is not discrimination to have them in a different school.
Friends of mine have a kid with autism (Holland....separate school) and another friend of mine have a kid with autism and asperger (in the USA) and they have their son in the regular school system and he is bullied a lot. They have switched schools 3 times and still the boy is bullied a lot and mainly because he is so different and even for some adults it is hard to deal with him due to his issues (btw. he is not violent or agressive at all) simple because he is so demanding and different like no other kids are in his class.
A family member of my in-laws had down syndrome and he was in a special institution where he got the best of the best help and it was great for him to be there and the facility was in a community where many wedding pictures were made over the years since it was in a beautiful surrounding.
I wonder if what happened in Conn. would have happened if this kid would have gotten special treatment so he might not have felt different among similar kids/teenagers.
Of course the mom should never have weapons around a kid like that and neither around any other kid/teenager.
I believe the system has failed and will keep failing if nothing will be different. In my opinion parents who want their kids to be seen as regular kids while they have diagnosed with either bipolar, autism, etc. are in denial and making it dangerous for others if they are in denial and therefore denying their kids from the best treatment there is. Is it wrong to amid your kid is different and getting the best treatment?
Banning guns is to me not the solution...getting kids the help they need with perhaps medication but mostly treatment and a good surrounding amongst similar kids, may very well much better so they feel better about themselves.
I'm getting sick of political correctness and keeping my/your mouth shut because some parents believe they have the right to have thir mental sick kids get into the same school system and/or no help just so they will look the same...and than others dying due to that...even if they don't do anything wrong, they deserve the best help out there!
I think you have answered your own question rather well. Mostly, it is the liberal/progressive mindset that has permeated our educational system more or less from the late sixties to the present. No common sense will prevail. Our country is being ruined by these liberals from the top to the bottom.
Wow, I just checked the date to make sure I hadn't ended up in a time warp. Apparently not. There have been a few good responses, but frankly I am shocked at the lack of absolute OUTRAGE toward the initial question!
Are you kidding me? Why are they allowed to go to the same schools as "normal" kids? I don't even know where to begin, as my mind is absolutely blown by this question.
Our Federal law addresses the rights of children with disabilities. The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) requires school systems to provide services to children with disabilities. These children are entitled to a free and appropriate education (FAPE), which is to be provided in the least restrictive environment (LRE).
What does all that mean? It means that, whenever possible, children should be educated with their peers. Often the best solution for disabled children is to give them full access to the same learning environment as their non-disabled peers.
The "separate but equal" idea from the OP reeks of discrimination, and turns my stomach.
Auststic kids, cognitively challenged kids, blind kids, deaf kids, kids in wheelchairs... They are still kids, and should not be made to feel less than their non-disabled peers.
Unreal.
Wow! And this is an example of of is wrong with this country.
not sure if its a left or right issue.
we are too worried about our kids emotional feelings. we tell them we are all the same, school try to teach good citizenship, there are kids that hard mentally handicapped in the same classes are the kids who are not.
there is nothing wrong with seperating them, forget trying to make them all the same.
we are afraid of telling people no, our kids play sports and even when they lose the coaches give them a pep talk of how good they got beat 25-0. in fact, with a score like that we have decided to remove the score so our kids wont hurt the feelings.
this is all about telling our kids we are all the same, telling them they can do anything in life. that is a lie. we do this because we are trying to make the kids with mental handicaps the same as everyone else.
When we came here 13 years ago we noticed that our kids were in the same school as kids with autism and we still don't understand why kids who are mentally challenged are in the same school as others.
Our son is in the gifted advanced program since Middle school and the gifted advanced division was in the same hall way as the kids who were also named "gifted" but were given that name because of their mentally state...
I don't want to be disrespectful but coming from Europe where they have special schools for kids with the same issues, I was not used to this and from witnessing what happened in his school and how difficult it is to handle some of these kids, to me there should be a different school for them.
Inmy sons case some of the kids with autism have run into other class rooms on a daily base and some have ruined some stuff and nobody was allowed to do anything only the teachers who are in charge for the kids with autism are allowed to touch them or help them or say anything to them.
I have a lot of respect for these teachers since it is very hard for them and not everybody can do what they do and they deserve the utmost respect.
Having said this, I don't believe these kids should be in the regular school system and I mean that for both sides.
I know many parents will be upset with me for saying this out loud but I have seen what kind of help they get in Holland and know that it is not discrimination to have them in a different school.
Friends of mine have a kid with autism (Holland....separate school) and another friend of mine have a kid with autism and asperger (in the USA) and they have their son in the regular school system and he is bullied a lot. They have switched schools 3 times and still the boy is bullied a lot and mainly because he is so different and even for some adults it is hard to deal with him due to his issues (btw. he is not violent or agressive at all) simple because he is so demanding and different like no other kids are in his class.
A family member of my in-laws had down syndrome and he was in a special institution where he got the best of the best help and it was great for him to be there and the facility was in a community where many wedding pictures were made over the years since it was in a beautiful surrounding.
I wonder if what happened in Conn. would have happened if this kid would have gotten special treatment so he might not have felt different among similar kids/teenagers.
Of course the mom should never have weapons around a kid like that and neither around any other kid/teenager.
I believe the system has failed and will keep failing if nothing will be different. In my opinion parents who want their kids to be seen as regular kids while they have diagnosed with either bipolar, autism, etc. are in denial and making it dangerous for others if they are in denial and therefore denying their kids from the best treatment there is. Is it wrong to amid your kid is different and getting the best treatment?
Banning guns is to me not the solution...getting kids the help they need with perhaps medication but mostly treatment and a good surrounding amongst similar kids, may very well much better so they feel better about themselves.
I'm getting sick of political correctness and keeping my/your mouth shut because some parents believe they have the right to have thir mental sick kids get into the same school system and/or no help just so they will look the same...and than others dying due to that...even if they don't do anything wrong, they deserve the best help out there!
Your post is the most senseible and truthful of the posts. All too often parents know that they have a problem child, something is just not right. They know this they can see this. But all too often, they do nothing about this. The child in question, is not seen by a Dr, and these children are in regular classes as normal children are.
Too often parents or Moms are in denial, i know some exactly like this, they just have a very hard time accepting their child is not normal. Can't talk to them about their child, they will snap your head off and tell you it is not any of your concern, don't worry about it, as one Mom told me. I was concern.
Too often these kids are seen as problem children, but without getting professional help, and being on presecribed medication, what do you expect, it is not the child's fault. Parents need to step up to the plate, and just admit they have a child who needs help. Nothing wrong with that, but being in denial, does not help the child in any way. And once the child gets a diagnosis by a professional, the kind of placement he or she should be in is then determined by many many tests.
So let me get this right....people are actually saying that a child who is NOT violent or aggressive shouldn't go to a school with "regular" kids because he's different and that causes other kids to bully him?
I guess expecting parents to raise their kids to be people instead of jack@sses is to much to ask.
What's going to happen to all these different children when they become adults? Are they going to have to find jobs, homes, shopping centers, etc away from all the "regular" people so that they won't bother anyone?
i do thank you for your candor and honesty. i am a special needs parent. did you know in this country for the longest time we didn't allow blacks into the classroom? the short answer to your question as to why we're letting special needs kids into the classroom is because the children just want to be like other children and learn with their peers. research has shown that special needs kids AND "regular" kids do better when everyone is included. the reg kids learn compassion and patience, the spec kids get the benefit of an adjusted curriculum to help them learn, and inevitably when you "dumb it down" for a spec needs kid in the classrm, you have another reg kid going ooooooh, now i get it. if you will watch the documentary called Including Samuel, you will completely understand. It's by Dan Habib. the PROBLEM with inclusion is proper training. you can't just throw a spec needs kid into a classrm without proper training and assistance. them being there isn't the problem, it's the lack of training with the staff. when inclusion is done correctly, it's a beautiful beautiful thing.
My son has Aspergers - since birth, not diagnosed until he was 27.
I removed him from school when he was in sixth grade because the school told me they "had no place for intellectually gifted students with behavioral problems."
Life became much better for all of us after that... he learned and was no longer bullied daily, nor did he have to spend his days alone in the principal's office because he "did something weird - AGAIN!"
I am responding to your post because I do take exception to what you wrote. I do not agree that mentally challenged children should be in regular public classrooms.
I don't agree with putting age peers together just because they are the same age. If a 10 year old student works at a 5 year old level then that child should be grouped with those who also work at a 5 year old level. Instead of age it should be knowledge/skill sets learned.
As a former pre-school teacher I studied to work with 'normal' children. I have a cousin that went to school to work with the handicapped. We were both pre-school teachers, but she learned different skills beyond what I did (and was paid accordingly) and was prepared to teach any child. Her jobs were always at special pre-schools for the handicapped. Mine were not. I had no desire to work with the handicapped. I accepted the lower pay because it was my choice.
Now, I can't speak with knowledge, but I would assume most school teachers go into teaching with my mindset - they want to teach the 'normal child'. There is nothing wrong with this mindset. Just as there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to go to school to work with the handicapped. We are all different in our abilities and our likes and our desires. To say that regular school teachers should learn above and beyond so they can deal with the handicapped is just asking too much.
I think most teachers get paid way too little. Did these teachers get the extra training needed to teach the handicapped? Did they have to pay for it out of pocket? Did they get a raise when inclusion started? I don't know the answers because I was never a public school teacher. However, these are questions I always ask.
Since there are people who willingly want to teach the handicapped then why not continue with SPED classes in the schools and not include those students in regular classes.
Better yet, change all schools to what I mentioned above... knowledge moves you along.
The one thing that always bothers me when our public schools are compared to other public schools around the world is this: in our schools we include the mentally handicapped and their test scores are included in the average. Schools around the world are choosier than we are and their scores reflect that.
This just makes me sad for all of us, for we are seen as 'dumb as a box of rocks' in most subjects, when that is not true. This hurts those who actually have knowledge.
Wow! And this is an example of of is wrong with this country.
Really? Do you think that we should go back to the days where we institutionalized children who didn't meet the norm? Maybe we should just have all kids take IQ tests before entering school, and those who score under 90 can just skip all that learnin' stuff, because they're not going to amount to anything anyway. </sarcasm>
We all live in this world together, and the kids you think should be excluded from "regular" schools are going to grow up into adults in the real world. Isolating them into their own schools helps no one. When kids with differences are included in "regular" schools, it should help everyone. "Normal" kids can learn that different doesn't equal bad. "Different" kids learn "normal" social skills from the "normal" kids.
Discrimination sucks, and separate but equal sucks too.
Really? Do you think that we should go back to the days where we institutionalized children who didn't meet the norm? Maybe we should just have all kids take IQ tests before entering school, and those who score under 90 can just skip all that learnin' stuff, because they're not going to amount to anything anyway. </sarcasm>
We all live in this world together, and the kids you think should be excluded from "regular" schools are going to grow up into adults in the real world. Isolating them into their own schools helps no one. When kids with differences are included in "regular" schools, it should help everyone. "Normal" kids can learn that different doesn't equal bad. "Different" kids learn "normal" social skills from the "normal" kids.
Discrimination sucks, and separate but equal sucks too.
No, but it isn't an either/or issue. Yes, one of the benefits of inclusion is that "normal" kids do learn different doesn't equal bad and they certainly do need to learn that but it is unfair when that comes at a cost of learning what they are supposed to academically. Right now the push is towards total inclusion, which I can tell you as a teacher, is a huge disservice to all the kids. There are non-core classes that should have inclusion for most kids, but there are kids that can't even do that much. Most academic core classes, on the other hand, are not suitable for all kids. Cripes, if we ever want to improve our top quarter scores, we are going to have to end our "we are all the same" delusion and ability group within the "normal" kids. There are kids with certain disabilities that absolutely belong in all regular classes, all day. High functioning Aspies (on the Autism spectrum) fit in that category, especially in the upper grades. But even then, for some young Aspies, even those who have genius level IQs, all day in a regular classroom is too much stimulation. Other than dangerous kids, I do think we need them all in the same school buildings; I just don't think they automatically belong in the same classes.
The extent of inclusion in regular classes needs to be made on a case-by-case basis, which theoretically it is now, but it also needs to be based on realistic evaluation of the cost/benefit to all the kids. We had a mother insist her child with an IQ of 63 be put in algebra class with his neighbor. The school was told by the district they had to honor the mother's wishes as part of accommodating his rights. I am sure he learned something in that class, but it was not worth that particular class running about 4 weeks behind the other classes by the end of the year. At the end of that year he still could not reliably add double digits and his test results were even lower than at the beginning of the year, which was not suprising, because he wasn't getting instruction that could have better benefited him. Tell me how that was fair to anyone.
The United States is the only country in the world that practices true universal education. It is one of the things that makes me proud of this nation. We guarentee free, appropriate education to all by law, as we should. The problem we have following the law isn't the free part - it's the appropriate part.
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