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Inner city Chicago is not a "war zone" unless you are a suburbanite that gets spooked by urban cities.
LOL! Do you live around Altgeld Gardens? 16th st. and Kedzie? 26th st and Kildare? Cicero Ave and Lake St? Don't talk about things you know nothing of pal.
Most people die of natural causes and cancer, those are things that are harder to impossible to prevent, death by firearm is completely preventable, that is the difference.
Bull.
How do you prevent murder by firearms unless you either wave a magic wand and make guns disappear or remove all potential murderers from society?
Its irrelevant because you think someone who wants to commit suicide is not going to commit suicide just because they dont have a gun. They will either jump off a bridge, building, overdose, cut their wrists, etc. Again, you focus on the tool used, not that suicide or murder occurred. Banning all guns will only increase crime and increase suicides by overdose, falling death or slit wrists. You will not stop suicide without mental healthcare.
And that study above has been debunked ad nauseum. Majority of crimes occur between both parties involved in illegal activity. Its also a red herring. Correlation doesnt equal causation. If you own guns because you live in a high crime neighborhood... does that mean guns caused you to shoot the intruder? And more likely to commit suicide by gun if its in the home? Well duh, I would rather shoot myself than cut my wrists or overdose, which arent guarantees or quick enough. Its like saying people who own pools are at risk of drowning in pools. Well, duh. Kind of hard to drown in a pool if you dont own one. But the pool didnt cause the death, drowning did. Whether it was in a pool or at the beach, you are at risk of drowning.
Too many of these studies are "published" by anti-gun groups and spoon fed to anti gunners who dont have a clue about guns, and ignore the other aspects of guns in our society, such as how many times they save lives or prevent crimes in our society. Some of them are unquantifiable... such as, how many lives are saved by shooting an intruder who might murder 10 other people down the line if not stopped?
The study I linked to is in the American Journal of Epidemiology and it has not been debunked. The article (which I doubt you even looked at) also contains links to other studies finding an increased risk of suicide and homicide for residents of homes with guns.
It used a sample of medical examiner mortality data for the U.S., so because of that very large sample size, criminality as a statistical factor would have been randomly distributed throughout the data. I don't know of how to explain this better to you except that the data included lots and lots of households that weren't involved in criminal activity, unless you want to state that the 40 % of households in the U.S. that own guns are all involved in illegal activity.
As to the other point you make, the study addressed exactly that issue, it included data on non-firearm related suicide in the analyses.
To quote:
"Our findings also suggest that the presence of a gun in the home increases the chance that a homicide or suicide in the home will be committed with a firearm rather than by using other means. Victims of suicide living in homes with guns were more than 30 times more likely to have died from a firearm-related suicide than from one committed with a different method. Guns are highly lethal, require little preparation, and may be chosen over less lethal methods to commit suicide, particularly when the suicide is impulsive. Suicidal persons may also be more likely to acquire a gun to commit suicide and, given the lethality of the weapon, are more likely to complete suicide, although the evidence on this point is mixed (20–22)."
LOL! Do you live around Altgeld Gardens? 16th st. and Kedzie? 26th st and Kildare? Cicero Ave and Lake St? Don't talk about things you know nothing of pal.
I'm from Little Village and I agree. It's insane out there. I remember earlier this year seeing in the news 7 people killed in one day. I know this isn't the norm but stats like that are just crazy. Even a Chicago cop just committed suicide from they believe all the post-traumatic stress. This is a first world country with 3rd world crime rates in certain parts of the city literally. I mean Detroit has a murder rate equal to San Salvador and higher than Johannesburg. 400 murders with 700,000 people that's insane. Flint Michigan almost 70 murders with 100,000 people too that is higher than San Salvador by about 10 per 100,000. Even Chicago which has a lot of nice neighborhoods diluting the stats that cities in Latin America don't have and the fact that we have cities comparing to theirs despite this is disturbing. Then you have to look at our ambulance response and trauma care compared to theirs. In 3rd world cities, the ambulance probably takes 3 times longer to arrive to a shooting and you're already dead. Then they have the poorer hospital staff and crappier equipment to top the slower ambulance response. In the Chicago trauma unit video below, 7 people wounded in one night in just one out of five trauma units, that one guy gets shot 13 times and survives. Another one, probably a 12 gauge at point blank range and survived. And both of them weren't even on their first trip to the trauma unit, they've both been shot before! Had they been in El Salvador they probably would've been dead the first time either waiting for the ambulance or by the medical staff's incompetence.
If a state with lax gun laws has a higher rate of suicide than states with stricter gun laws, why is that irrelevant? Lives saved is lives saved. If it's more difficult for a troubled person to buy a gun, and as a result they don't get a gun and don't kill themselves, why is that not important? And you can say they'll just use another method, but in reality, not everyone does.
Research studies have shown that in homes where guns are present the inhabitants have a higher risk of homicide AND suicide than in homes where guns are not present.
Why should millions of law abiding people have to jump through additional hoops, regulations, and costs just so some whackjob doesnt blow his brains out?
Cost of living, keeps the low life pond scum, at bay.
Kind of like there is low crime in the affluent and wealthy areas around Chicago, but the inner city is a war zone.
Oppression and poverty, create victims of violence.
Look at Britain... Their violence statistics, are more than 4 times greater per capita, than the USA. They are not allowed to protect themselves in Britain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78
Inner city Chicago is not a "war zone" unless you are a suburbanite that gets spooked by urban cities.
Ok, so they just have a very high violence rate compared to other advanced cities in the nation.
The truth can be scary, if reality slowly sinks in.
The study I linked to is in the American Journal of Epidemiology and it has not been debunked. The article (which I doubt you even looked at) also contains links to other studies finding an increased risk of suicide and homicide for residents of homes with guns.
It used a sample of medical examiner mortality data for the U.S., so because of that very large sample size, criminality as a statistical factor would have been randomly distributed throughout the data. I don't know of how to explain this better to you except that the data included lots and lots of households that weren't involved in criminal activity, unless you want to state that the 40 % of households in the U.S. that own guns are all involved in illegal activity.
As to the other point you make, the study addressed exactly that issue, it included data on non-firearm related suicide in the analyses.
To quote:
"Our findings also suggest that the presence of a gun in the home increases the chance that a homicide or suicide in the home will be committed with a firearm rather than by using other means. Victims of suicide living in homes with guns were more than 30 times more likely to have died from a firearm-related suicide than from one committed with a different method. Guns are highly lethal, require little preparation, and may be chosen over less lethal methods to commit suicide, particularly when the suicide is impulsive. Suicidal persons may also be more likely to acquire a gun to commit suicide and, given the lethality of the weapon, are more likely to complete suicide, although the evidence on this point is mixed (20–22)."
It has been debunked. You're an idiot who refuses to see the facts. Again, of course if you have a gun and want to commit suicide, you will use the gun. You rocket scientists are so smart. Golly gee.
The problem is with moron gun grabbers such as yourself making up and believing BS statistics that having a gun in the house means you will commit suicide. Utterly ridiculous. Again, correlation doesnt equal causation. What are you, 12 yrs old? Get an education.
New England is sparsely populated, highly educated, LIBERAL and homogeneous. Most of the gun owners are hunters who are the least likely group to misuse their guns violently against another human. From what I hear they also have excellent mental health care.
That might explain why they don't have the societal problems that most of obese, uneducated, diversified U.S.A. has.
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