Are Half Blacks 'Allowed' to Identify as 'White'? (single, considered, President)

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

I have heard the same thing from Chinese who are honest about China. Anyway, Africa is NOT NEARLY AS BAD as some would have you believe. I know some Ghanians and they've showed me pictures of what it's like: Malls, condos, movie theaters etc.

Not to mention some of the fastest growing economies on Earth are in Africa. China is SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE OFF THAN BOTSWANA IS AND ITS ECONOMY IS GROWING NOWHERE NEAR AS FAST AS BOTSWANA. But all you here in the news is "China this and China that" when in fact China is even more corrupt, polluted and backwards than many African nations. Difference is that China is a totalitarian state so people are forbidden to show how broken their economy is and how starving the people are.

They always go to a slum in West Africa while ignoring the progress being made there...and then they never show anything of west China, most likely because it is ALL SLUMS and NO PROGRESS.

It's just the media loves to show starving Africans "incapable of taking care of themselves." It's that whole "white man's burden" thing all over again.

Funny, but you never see a side by side comparison of Seychelles to Moldavia....maybe because Seychelles is an African nation doing pretty good while Moldavia is a white nation that is worse off than several African countries.

My husband lived in Nigeria, Gabon, and Angola for several years of his life. I'm going by what he tells me from first hand experience.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

This thread is getting to be a bit convoluted, but I wanted to respond to this post before I bow out. The only thing point that some posters are making is that since race is a social construct, people will assume that an individual is a member of the race they look most similar to. Personally, I don't understand why that would make someone angry/annoyed. I don't believe that anyone has said, or implied, that biracial people should not embrace all parts of their heritage. However, it is a bit confounding when someone who is 1/2 black, not only rejects being called black, but also engages in negative stereotyping of black people. But, as the saying goes, all my skinfolk ain't my kinfolk...

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

I can only speak for myself and my family. None of my kids is angry or annoyed when someone else assumes they are "black."

"Caught offguard" at the unusual (in their life) and sudden focus on the color of their skin doesn't mean that they are angry or annoyed. My daughter simply doesn't think about what color her skin is. It would be like someone saying to me, "Hey, we'd like for you to mentor some people who were born in New Orleans." OK - yes, I was born in New Orleans - but it's not like I think about it as part of my daily identity. It's part of who I am, and I am proud of it and embrace it and am glad that I was born there, but it's not what I base much of "who I am" on.

And yes - there are people on this thread who are irritated when biracial people INSIST on "biracial' rather than "black" when they SELF IDENTIFY. This doesn't mean that they're rejecting their black ancestry, or engaging in negative stereotyping - they are merely clarifying how they identify themselves. And it's simply THE TRUTH. Why that would offend someone is beyond me.

What IS offensive though is when people are offended when THEY clarify that they are bi or multi racial and are then perceived, based on this statement, that they are somehow "REJECTING THEIR BLACKNESS."

[calipoppy]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

You self identify as "black," and to my knowledge do not have any children, black, biracial, or in any other category. You are from a "black" family that self identifies as such.

I am from a multiracial family - not only my own, but my parents and children have specifically chosen to be multiracial families.

Not only that, but I have a very close and very open relationship with my four biracial children. I also have an ongoing relationship with my African American relatives.

I don't see how your perspective gives you a better advantage point than mine. You have a fuller understanding of "blackness in America" than I do, but I'm pretty sure I have a fuller understanding of the dynamics of a multiracial family than you do.

Actually I am a Black American of African, European and Asian ancestry....but thanks for making (incorrect and self-serving) assumptions based on the fact that we simply do not see eye-to-eye on this topic.

[Lucario]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

That's not what I am saying. If a mixed person says they are black, few black people say anything against it...if a mixed person say they aren't black, black people insist that they are and are just "sell outs" for saying otherwise.

I have yet to see a white person insist mixed people are white and nothing else the way I see black people all the time insist mixed people are black and nothing else.

Asians tend to see mixed people as not being Asian.

[calipoppy]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I can only speak for myself and my family. None of my kids is angry or annoyed when someone else assumes they are "black."

And yes - there are people on this thread who are irritated when biracial people INSIST on "biracial' rather than "black" when they SELF IDENTIFY. This doesn't mean that they're rejecting their black ancestry, or engaging in negative stereotyping - they are merely clarifying how they identify themselves. And it's simply THE TRUTH. Why that would offend someone is beyond me.

What IS offensive though is when people are offended when THEY clarify that they are bi or multi racial and are then perceived, based on this statement, that they are somehow "REJECTING THEIR BLACKNESS."

NO ONE has said anything of the sort in this thread.

No one cares if biracial/mulitracial people identify themselves as biracial or multiracial. No one has an issue with them identifying themselves in that manner. It is both accurate and appropriate. However, it is ridiculous for some biracials to say that they are neither "black" nor "white" (or Asian or Indian or Hispanic or any of the racial combination) when the truth is that they are "both" (a and b and/or c...)

One other thing...some biracials/multiracials need to also accept the fact that some mixed race people prefer to identify themselves according to their non-White ancestry. All mixed race people do NOT think a like. Acknowledge and accept that fact as well.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by calipoppy

Actually I am a Black American of African, European and Asian ancestry....but thanks for making (incorrect and self-serving) assumptions based on the fact that we simply do not see eye-to-eye on this topic.

Don't be disingenuous and/or dishonest.

Here's why I believe that you self identify as "black:"

Quotes from you:

I am Black and have mentored Hispanic girls so I really do not see the reason for such unnecessary reaction on her part.

Sorry but I was raised in an upper middle class Black neighborhood in LA. I am not certain where you are from but I don't associate "welfare" or "pig's feet" with being Black. I come from a very long line of strong, educated, entrepreneurial Black men and women.

It is obvious that we haved experienced two vastly different Black worlds and it is sad that your view is so very narrow and limited.

So according to you there are NO Black Americans (ie with 2 Black parents) that love art, classical music, theater, travel, history, etc?

So I guess my Black family is just a herd of super unique "unicorns" because we love all of those things, right?

My father is the complexion of Colin Powell AND he is the product of two Black parents...he considers himself a Black man (not "mixed", not "biracial"). My family is well aware of our family history and ancestry, however, we have no need to demand the creation of another catergory in the American "caste" system in order to divide ("elevate") us from Black Americans based solely on our respective shade of brown.

Most Black American women support Black American men to a fault. We love Black men...nothing will ever change that fact

I could go on and on, since your posts regarding your experiences as a Black woman in the US are numerous, but I'm tired of reading through your posts to be honest.

Please, don't EVEN try to act like I've just ASSUMED you self identify as a Black woman. That's downright dishonest of you. You clearly identify yourself as such.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by calipoppy

NO ONE has said anything of the sort in this thread.

No one cares if biracial/mulitracial people identify themselves as biracial or multiracial. No one has an issue with them identifying themselves in that manner.

Apparently some people care very much. It doesn't have to necessarily happen on this thread in order to be true.

However, I'll repeat what I said:

And yes - there are people on this thread who are irritated when biracial people INSIST on "biracial' rather than "black" when they SELF IDENTIFY.

Are you HONESTLY trying to say that people haven't been negative about this? Good grief, I am not going to go back through this thread and repeat or repost all the negativity - it should be obvious to anyone who is looking at this thread honestly.

[calipoppy]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

Don't be disingenuous and/or dishonest.

Here's why I believe that you self identify as "black:"

Quotes from you:


I could go on and on, since your posts regarding your experiences as a Black woman in the US are numerous, but I'm tired of reading through your posts to be honest.

Please, don't EVEN try to act like I've just ASSUMED you self identify as a Black woman. That's downright dishonest of you. You clearly identify yourself as such.

YOU are the one being dishonest because I have also posted about my ancestry in numerous threads as well, however you did not provide THOSE quotes because it did not serve your purpose.

Quotes from me....

Originally Posted by calipoppy

Ok so I'm Black with European and Asian ancestry what exactly is my "own" kind? I am only supposed to marry another person who is Black with European and Asian ancestry? And in what percentages would their DNA admixture need to be for it to be "OK" in the mind of someone like yourself?

Originally Posted by calipoppy

I am African American with some distant European and Asian ancestry. Occasionally people think that I am Polynesian/Pacific Islander

Originally Posted by calipoppy

As an African American with additional Asian and European ancestry I still identify mostly with my African roots because that it what people see when they see me and it is what I identify with most strongly.

I am a proud American but Africa is the Motherland.

Most of you do not look at President Obama as only a "White" person so why to uproar?

Originally Posted by calipoppy

Sorry if it is offensive to you but I know my ancestry. Knowledge about my ancestors is very important in my family and I simpy acknowledge what I know myself to be.

I do not refer to myself as "mixed" and I do not think of myself as "mixed"....I am a Black woman. But I am a Black woman who knows specifics about my European and Chinese ancestry so that is a part of who I am as well.

Originally Posted by calipoppy

So....since I have African, European and Chinese ancestry am I supposed to only be with another person of African, European and Chinese ancestry?

Originally Posted by calipoppy

I am the descendent of African slaves, slave owners of European ancestry and Chinese railroad workers. I am the descendent of business owners, a college professor and educators.

I have a Bachelor's Degree and Master's from a prestigious university in Southern California. I am working on a 2nd Master's degree.

I grew up middle (if not upper middle) class family in Los Angeles. I have a great career. I own income property. I have travelled extensively.

Maybe you are the one who needs to "learn" a little something .

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by Lucario

Asians tend to see mixed people as not being Asian.

I am not sure what countries or cultures you are referring to but I can tell you having lived in SE Asia for years, that in the Philippines, Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore, and Malaysia that the above is not the commonly held belief.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

I can only speak for myself and my family. None of my kids is angry or annoyed when someone else assumes they are "black."

"Caught offguard" at the unusual (in their life) and sudden focus on the color of their skin doesn't mean that they are angry or annoyed. My daughter simply doesn't think about what color her skin is. It would be like someone saying to me, "Hey, we'd like for you to mentor some people who were born in New Orleans." OK - yes, I was born in New Orleans - but it's not like I think about it as part of my daily identity. It's part of who I am, and I am proud of it and embrace it and am glad that I was born there, but it's not what I base much of "who I am" on.

That is great that your daughter does not feel her skin color defines her in anyway. I hope everyone has the ability to feel that way at some point in the future. I generally feel that way here in the US, being a white woman, in a predominantly white culture, but when I have lived in Asia where I was the minority, I was white before anything else to most people. Eventually I started to feel that I WAS my skin color and thus represented ALL white people. It was an odd experience to say the least, and for the most part it did not have any negative connotations for which I am endlessly grateful. I am assuming it is not always that way for other minorities.

My daughter is multiracial, as are most of her cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. She has told me multiple times that she thinks about being multiracial frequently, it is as much a part of her paradigm as being a woman, or an American. In other words it is a large part of who she is, even if it is not by any mean the largest part of who she is. She has also told me she immediately feels a kinship to other biracial people even if they are not the same "kind" as she is. Because being biracial here, means they have some shared experiences that other people have not had. I can only take her word at it, but I will share with her, that apparently your daughter, has not had that same experience. It is good for her to know.

And yes - there are people on this thread who are irritated when biracial people INSIST on "biracial' rather than "black" when they SELF IDENTIFY. This doesn't mean that they're rejecting their black ancestry, or engaging in negative stereotyping - they are merely clarifying how they identify themselves. And it's simply THE TRUTH. Why that would offend someone is beyond me.

Can you please show an example? All I have seen is one person talk about such a situation, not anyone actual state the above. Thanks.

What IS offensive though is when people are offended when THEY clarify that they are bi or multi racial and are then perceived, based on this statement, that they are somehow "REJECTING THEIR BLACKNESS."

I haven't seen anyone say that but I did jump in sort of halfway. Are you saying people on this thread have said that?

I agree it is unacceptable to say the above but I do sort of resent the implication that only black people put that sort of pressure on biracial children (and that biracial as a term always seems to imply black/white but that is another thread all together). Trying to force biracial people into one race or another, happens in many communities besides the black one.