Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have been married 20 years, and those have been mostly happy years. I get what you are saying though, the odds are against marriage going well in this day and age. From a simply common sense point of view I can see why young men are choosing to avoid all the risk involved in marriage by simply not getting married. The only way these attitudes will change is to change the child support laws, and the divorce laws reducing the burden and risk that is put on men when they get married. The system has always punished men in divorce and its time to change that. It is very bad for society for marriage to go into decline, this is a sad trend.
Men should not marry women who have less education and worse paying jobs, but men like women who are dependent on them to a certain extent. Then, if a divorce comes, they complain about paying alimony. You can't have it both ways.
Child support should always be paid by the father and marriage is not necessary to prove fatherhood.
I read one study that claimed men were very prone to cheat. It was a scientific study and my posting was removed as being sexist and prejudicial in some way. I read another, also scientific, that claimed a woman's sexual interest in a partner is in inverse proportion to the length of the relationship, meaning the longer you know her the less she's interested in you.
Look, in a world where women can earn as much as men (not happening yet, but getting there), and given the above comments, maybe marriage is not such a great thing. Maybe it should just last for ten years with a renewal contract.
The only thing would be ensuring that the kids had a good and balanced upbringing.
In the UK I read that the majority of people are now electing to live together and not to marry. But civil partnerships have the same legal responsibilities of marriage over there.
I've not read one post from the OP that is in any way appreciative of women. Unless they are in the home giving birth to multiple children. That seems to be OK with him.
If you feel women are men-haters who are agitated because they take the pill, feel free to join his club. Any woman with brain cells is going to gravitate to the grown MEN who are not afraid of women, don't hate them and appreciate them for what they are. Not what all the knuckle-draggers want them to be because they feel, I strongly suspect, emasculated by strong, intelligent women. Real men encourage the women in their lives to be everything they can be. They like women and accept them for what they are. Not try to change them. Or start thread after thread listing all the things wrong with women in America today. Lol, what's that all about?
It's pretty telling that the OP is blaming the current state of marriage in our society on the women. Because, obviously, the knuckle draggers are just so dang irresistible.
Men should not marry women who have less education and worse paying jobs, but men like women who are dependent on them to a certain extent. Then, if a divorce comes, they complain about paying alimony. You can't have it both ways.
Child support should always be paid by the father and marriage is not necessary to prove fatherhood.
I read one study that claimed men were very prone to cheat. It was a scientific study and my posting was removed as being sexist and prejudicial in some way. I read another, also scientific, that claimed a woman's sexual interest in a partner is in inverse proportion to the length of the relationship, meaning the longer you know her the less she's interested in you.
Look, in a world where women can earn as much as men (not happening yet, but getting there), and given the above comments, maybe marriage is not such a great thing. Maybe it should just last for ten years with a renewal contract.
The only thing would be ensuring that the kids had a good and balanced upbringing.
In the UK I read that the majority of people are now electing to live together and not to marry. But civil partnerships have the same legal responsibilities of marriage over there.
We are probably headed in the same direction.
So only men should pay child support, even if it's proven he's not the father?
You will find that marriage - and child-rearing in marriage - remains strongest precisely among the well-educated upper-middle class. It is among the lower-middle, which only a few decades ago distinguished itself from the lower classes by adopting "respectable" behaviours like marriage, that the decline is most notable. Far from a decline in upper-middle class legitimate births, that is the only class in America where birth in wedlock is holding steady.
Points noted. I should have added "won't be producing enough offspring" to compete with that of other nations with higher rates of marriage. According to the CDC, all births were down across the board in 2009, and 41% of births in America are now to unwed women. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_01.pdf
Marriage rates
Marriage rates by State from 1990 to 2010 show declines in marriage. Apparently, guys are still getting married in Nevada, albeit at a now much lower rate since 1990. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/ma...0_95_99-10.pdf
Year: 1980, rate of 15.90
Year: 2008, rate of 10.60
Birth rates
The average birth rate for the United States from 2008-2011 is 0.825. Here are some stats on birth rates for some other countries from 2008-2011: Population growth (annual %) | Data | Table
Going back, for 2006 and 2007 in the United States, you had an annual percentage growth of 1.0, which, in my estimation, is likely due to a robust economy. However, it is possible that we have reached somewhat of a perfect storm. We have a changing attitude toward marriage, the rise of women, less people choosing the religion/marriage path, the other factors already mentioned in the OP and in the thread, all in conjunction with the disruption of economic factors. These confluences are more likely to affect the "lower-middle" you so aptly described. Marriage has a difficult, but perhaps not insurmountable, road ahead of itself.
The OP has yet to make one post that is in any way appreciative of women. Unless they are in the home giving birth to multiple children. That seems to be OK with him.
If you feel women are men-haters who are agitated because they take the pill, feel free to join his club. Any woman with brain cells is going to gravitate to the grown MEN who are not afraid of women, don't hate them and appreciate them for what they are. Not what all the knuckle-draggers want them to be because they feel, I strongly suspect, emasculated by strong, intelligent women. Real men encourage the women in their lives to be everything they can be.
It's pretty telling that the OP is blaming the current state of marriage in our society on the women. Because, obviously, the knuckle draggers are just so dang irresistible.
You people don't know the definition of a real man.
And I have no problem with females being independent. But claiming to be independent yet leeching off men with the help of Big Daddy Government, that's what I have a problem with.
You are simply wrong. Men still and women still expect men to be the breadwinners this desire has not changed. Yes wives are expected to work that probably because of stagnating wages, but men still see their role mainly as provider and the inability to fulfill that role makes marriage less attractive to men.
That's the problem, they need to see marriage as a partnership. Sometimes they may be the breadwinner sometimes the woman might be. It could change at times, since employment is so volatile right now. It shouldn't matter and does not matter to secure males. You are talking about the insecure who would not make good partners anyway.
You can keep repeating yourself but I know too many great men with successful marriages who don't pout about needing to be a King of the castle all the time. They appreciate their wives' successes and are happy to have the financial security in such bad economic times.
I'm sorry some guys are so controllling that they don't want their wives to be partners. Most men will decide at some point they want marriage anyway, when they become mature enough to deal with having an equal.
"Fewer young men in the US want to get married than ever, while the desire for marriage is rising among young women ... Pew recently found that the number of women 18-34 saying that having a successful marriage is one of the most important things rose from 28 percent to 37 percent since 1997. The number of young adult men saying the same thing dropped from 35 percent to 29 percent in the same time."
It's not difficult to understand. Men don't need to get married to have sexual relationships anymore. "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?", etc. Men are in a much more vulnerable position in marriage today, since they are not necessary for their wives' financial security or social status. Despite the desire for marriage expressed by many women, few show any signs of being capable of long-term commitments. 67 percent of divorces are initiated by wives, most for frivolous reasons.
But it's not all women's fault. Men really don't have to grow up anymore, and so they aren't growing up. By some accounts more than 70 percent of men are addicted to pornography. Nevermind video games. And what kind of woman wants to marry a thirty-something video-game addict who doesn't even own a tie?
Move to the Netherlands. The laws are significantly more fair and they hire Americans. Once you become a permanent citizen you have to pay regular tax rates though 52% OUCH! . 15% divorce rate, but even though they speak english you will have to learn dutch .
Perhaps because of the high tax rates fewer can afford the legal fees, ergo less frivolous divorcing. OTOH their government actually provides benefits.
First off, you people don't know the definition of a real man.
And I have no problem with females being independent. But claiming to be independent yet leeching off men with the help of Big Daddy Government, that's what I have a problem with.
A real man is someone who does the right thing, whether he likes it or not, but because it IS the right thing.
A real man makes decisions based on what benefits everyone as a whole, not just himself.
A real man is able to look at his reflection in a mirror, and say, that he likes the person looking back at him.
I raised 2 daughters as a single dad. I made every decision based on what was best for them. While I had already decided I would never re-marry, I also decided that I wouldn't date while raising them. I never wanted them to think for a moment that anyone in my life, came before them in any way. They never went to jail, they don't do drugs, they are both graduates, the oldest has a college degree, Summa *** Laude.
When their mom lost everything, I let her move in MY home, not only once, but twice.. We turned the den into a bedroom for her. I was not going to let the mother of my children be homeless, a REAL MAN, doesn't do that. Just because I am upset with her, doesn't mean I make decisions based on my feelings. I did what the right thing was. I was able to look in a mirror at the end of the day, and like the person I was looking at.
So before you start making grand proclamations that no one here knows what a real man is, be sure of it.
I am NOT the only man here to believe the same was as I. Just because YOU don't see it, doesn't make what YOU believe, true.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. 15% divorce rate, but even though they speak english you will have to learn dutch 
.
